Two deck blackjack

[Johnny#5]

A casino near me has started offering two-deck blackjack. It has the same rules as all the other blackjack tables in the casino except that mid-shoe entries aren't allowed and, instead of getting your cards face-up, you get them dealt face down. So, as best as I can recall:

-Blackjacks pay 3-2
-Dealer hits soft 17
-May double down on any 2
-Double after split allowed
-May split up to 4 times
-Split aces get only one card

Just like all the other 6-deck tables in the casino.

So my questions are:

-What is the point of dealing your cards face down? It doesn't change the probabilities at all, are they hoping you'll add the numbers up wrong or something or is it more to try and curb card counters? The cards get exposed sometime or another anyhow.

-Does anyone have a strategy table for this game? What is the house advantage with these rules? This game almost seems attractive enough for me to try and learn card counting.

[asterion]

Those aren't awful rules for a hand-pitch two-deck game. It'd be better if they stood on all 17, but not awful. You'll probably have to reset to the rules when you open the page, but to me it looks like a house edge of about 0.45%. http://wizardofodds.com/blackjack/ho...alculator.html
It is better than a six-deck game using the same rules. The hitting soft 17 is what kills you here. If they stood on all 17s, the house edge would be cut in half.

It'll also depend on the penetration you get, of course. If they give pretty deep penetration, that'll help.

[ReidDeCardes]

I'm not sure why 2 deck is dealt face down, but I saw that every time I saw 2 deck in Vegas. I think it is just the tradittion. If you are use to playing 6 deck then there are minor adjustments. Only use 1 hand to look at the card, sounds obvious but I kept using 2 hands after playing hold em out of habit. If you want a hit then make a brushing movement with the cards on the felt towards you. If you want to stand then tuck the cards under your chips. If you want a split or double down then turn the cards up and place your bet next to your chips, just like 6 deck. If you get a blackjack then just turn them up.

If you play at a full table then, depending on the penetration, they may shuffle every 2 rounds. That is annoying at the least and bad if you are counting.

[jba]

I'm almost positive it's face down to discourage advantage players. It's much more difficult to look at the cards discreetly when they're only face up for a couple seconds. it can also affect playing decisions - for example whether or not to take insurance.

[ReidDeCardes]

You're probably right about AP players. I know it's considered good form to show your cards to the other players when you look at them.

[cardcounter0]

-What is the point of dealing your cards face down?
Simply because that is the traditional way of dealing single and double deck games.

Probably was originally for players to protect themselves from mechanics. I can't see old time gamblers content to let a dealer see what they have, or even not allowed to touch their cards, like in a modern shoe game. It really doesn't make counting more difficult.

-Does anyone have a strategy table for this game? What is the house advantage with these rules?
www.blackjackinfo.com can produce the correct strategy for this game. The off-the-top edge is .38%

The real key to beatability is penetration. Watch three or four shuffles. Actually count, one-by-one, the number of cards dealt out until the cut card appears. This will give you an almost exact idea of penetration. 70%-75% is what you are looking for. 65% would be marginal.

I have beaten similar games with 50% pen, but that was kind of a grudge thing, I was using a two level count, about 50 indexes, and pounding a 1:20 spread. The casino eliminated the double deck game and went totally to 6 and 8 deck shoes.
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[ReidDeCardes]

A bit off topic, but...

A few years ago I stayed at the Gold Coast. I played their double deck, it was my first trip really counting and betting according to the count. Their pen was probably 55 to 60%. But to make things worse, there was one dealer who would shuffle before the cut card. I'm sure she wasn't shuffling up on me because she would do it everytime, even when I first sat down and hadn't changed my bets yet. I think she thought the she should not reach the cut card. she was the only one there that did that.

[Johnny#5]

I went back to this casino last night and sat in the two deck game a little. At least with this particular dealer, the deck penetration was in the neighborhood of 80% I would guess. It's a small casino so the dealers shuffle by hand, the rules are lax, etc.

It's the best blackjack game in the state that I know of and apparently beatable by professional types. We'll see how long they keep offering it, heh. Though from my little bit of experience there the casino might well profit more from the wannabe counters than casual players lol. Of course a real pro would be a much different story.