Foxwoods Angle Shooter Goes Ballistic

[Reko Savinen]

I heard this dude on the complete other side of the room at table 32. Jesus f*ckin' Christ, what a scene. I love Foxwoods.

[BigBadBabar]

XCHAMP FOR MOD

[kkcountry]

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At this point I just couldn't help myself and said "He still owes $50! He said "call" after the other guy bet $50 and never put it in the pot!."

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awesome! [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] b&m

[LiveInPeace]

This is just one of the worst conventions - being able to show cards heads up in live action before showdown. It invariably invites comments/advice/reaction from other players whether explicity asked for or not.

I was recently in a sizeable pot, PLO, I've hit a big hand on the flop. Three players still in, I come out betting into them. Player 3 folds out of turn. Player two thinks a while then lays his hand down face up, showing a better made hand with weaker draws than mine. He's favorite against me. The player who folded out of turn now thinks he's folding too and makes a comment to the effect of how stupid it is to fold such a monster. The rest of the table discusses this while the card shower is still thinking what to do.

A minute or two later, he declares ALL IN. (I later decided that it was at this point I should have probably called the floor for a decision). I call and get beat.

There are a number of questions regarding this, the fold out of turn adding another complication since the question arises whether it was really HU when the player exposed his cards.

[JLimbs]

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This is just one of the worst conventions - being able to show cards heads up in live action before showdown. It invariably invites comments/advice/reaction from other players whether explicity asked for or not.

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I agree, even in heads up pots it shouldn't be allowed. There is always some genius at the table that has to make his opinion known and it gives free information to the person that is thinking.

Not only that it puts the other player in the hand in an unfair situation. The person that made the bet is forced to stay quiet because speaking up will usually give away the strength of his hand.

Its a stupid tactic should be banned all together. I wouldn't go so far as to call it angle shooting, but its certainly not fair.

-Jerry

[Rottersod]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This is just one of the worst conventions - being able to show cards heads up in live action before showdown. It invariably invites comments/advice/reaction from other players whether explicity asked for or not.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree, even in heads up pots it shouldn't be allowed. There is always some genius at the table that has to make his opinion known and it gives free information to the person that is thinking.

Not only that it puts the other player in the hand in an unfair situation. The person that made the bet is forced to stay quiet because speaking up will usually give away the strength of his hand.

Its a stupid tactic should be banned all together. I wouldn't go so far as to call it angle shooting, but its certainly not fair.

-Jerry

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Here's what I did the other day:

I flopped a boat with a 93 in the BB. Flop was 933. At the river I go all in and the guy on my left tanks and finally turns over a 9. I sit for a minute while he's thinking and then look at my cards and turn over my 9. He thinks for a few minutes and calls. Then he ships me 2 racks.

[psandman]

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This is just one of the worst conventions - being able to show cards heads up in live action before showdown. It invariably invites comments/advice/reaction from other players whether explicity asked for or not.

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I agree, even in heads up pots it shouldn't be allowed. There is always some genius at the table that has to make his opinion known and it gives free information to the person that is thinking.

Not only that it puts the other player in the hand in an unfair situation. The person that made the bet is forced to stay quiet because speaking up will usually give away the strength of his hand.

Its a stupid tactic should be banned all together. I wouldn't go so far as to call it angle shooting, but its certainly not fair.

-Jerry

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I see no reason to not allow this in a heads up situation. What you do need to do is require the player that is exposing his cards to make it clear that he is not folding. If as stated in the OP the player pushed his cards forward then i would be inclined to considre that a muck. But I have seen plenty of players announce that they aren't folding , keep there hands or a chip on the cards as soon as they are exposed clearly indicating that they aren't folding.

As to players talking about the hand, those players need to be addressed but it doesn't matter whether cards are exposed or not they need to be told to STFU.

[DeuceHigh80]

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Its a stupid tactic should be banned all together. I wouldn't go so far as to call it angle shooting, but its certainly not fair.

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To me the key detail that makes this an angle shot is the slight motion towards the muck at the same time he showed his cards. That and his reaction when the Aussie folded seem to be a pretty clear angle shot -- he was anticipating the fold and had already planned how to react.

Assuming showing your cards is legal then there are ways to show them and be absolutely clear you aren't folding (i.e. keep your hands on them and keep them right next to your chips...). You would think someone who's not angle shooting would want to be crystal clear they were NOT folding, while this guy seems to have been intentionally trying to mimic a fold.

[JLimbs]

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I see no reason to not allow this in a heads up situation. What you do need to do is require the player that is exposing his cards to make it clear that he is not folding. If as stated in the OP the player pushed his cards forward then i would be inclined to considre that a muck. But I have seen plenty of players announce that they aren't folding , keep there hands or a chip on the cards as soon as they are exposed clearly indicating that they aren't folding.

As to players talking about the hand, those players need to be addressed but it doesn't matter whether cards are exposed or not they need to be told to STFU.

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In theory that sounds fair, but in application it seems like people at the table almost always speak up. The thing is there are no consequences for someone who makes a comment about the hand while it is in progress. It happens way more often then it should in B + M and is just one of those unfortunate downsides to playing in casinos. Some people don't know the rule, and other people don't know enough to respect it.

-Jerry

[psandman]

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[ QUOTE ]
I see no reason to not allow this in a heads up situation. What you do need to do is require the player that is exposing his cards to make it clear that he is not folding. If as stated in the OP the player pushed his cards forward then i would be inclined to considre that a muck. But I have seen plenty of players announce that they aren't folding , keep there hands or a chip on the cards as soon as they are exposed clearly indicating that they aren't folding.

As to players talking about the hand, those players need to be addressed but it doesn't matter whether cards are exposed or not they need to be told to STFU.

[/ QUOTE ]

In theory that sounds fair, but in application it seems like people at the table almost always speak up. The thing is there are no consequences for someone who makes a comment about the hand while it is in progress. It happens way more often then it should in B + M and is just one of those unfortunate downsides to playing in casinos. Some people don't know the rule, and other people don't know enough to respect it.

-Jerry

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I agree that it happens to much, bu disagree with some notion that it happens more often when a player exposes his cards heads up.