Monster Draw vs. top and middle sets

[sdill]

My first post. Just wanted some input on this hand. $400 PLO on Party Poker. Had about $850 in from of me in the SB. Get dealt Ad Kc Jc 10d. 4 people in the hand. Flop comes Kd Qd 4s. I check trying to slow play my monster draw. Person after me bets the pot, which at the time was only $20, next person calls, everyone folds to me, and I call. Turn is a rag, no help to anyone. I check, the flop bettor, bets the pot again, which is around $90, next person makes it $360, I decide to cold call the $360, and the other guy puts us both all in. I call the rest of my stack. The river is a rag diamond, giving me my flush and a very nice $2,300 pot. Would anyone have played this different, and if so, why?

Other information.
The initial bettor was the big stack at the table with about $1,300 and the other had about $500.
The initial bettor ended up have trip Q's
The raiser had trip K's
I had the full wrap with nut flush draw.

[parre]

Why on earth do you wait until the turn where you have less equity to get more money into the pot? Lead/push or check/raise, but don't check-call the flop.

[Spellmen]

Get it in on the flop where your equity is huge 3 way

[zizazziza]

re-raise on flop. you cant slow-play "monster draws" they decrease in their greatness on every street. re-pop it on the flop and hope you can get it in on the flop with 2 callers.

[JerseyTom]

[ QUOTE ]
Why on earth do you wait until the turn where you have less equity to get more money into the pot? Lead/push or check/raise, but don't check-call the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was just thinking about this situation the other day (wrap str8 and nut flush vs 2 sets). You have MASSIVE equity on the flop, since they're blocking each other's boats and you have a K as well. Lead or C/R this flop.

You cannot just flat call the flop; you need to get as much money in as you can while there are still 2 cards to come. Compare:

Flop
board: KdQd4s
hero: AdKcJcTd 56.86%
vill1: KK** 36.39%
vill2: QQ** 6.75%

Turn
board: KdQd4s2h
hero: AdKcJcTd 44.63%
vill1: KK** 51.85%
vill2: QQ** 3.52%

Now the turn is still profitable 3-way (though a bit less so), mainly because the QQ idiot is padding the pot for you (note too that the above numbers are against random KK,QQ hands. Sometimes they will have some of your outs, so your actual odds will be somewhat lower.)

The problem is that flat-calling potentially kills your action when you hit on the turn (they'll still have a redraw, however), or gives you the opportunity to make a mistake if a brick comes.

Yes, sometimes when you pump this flop, QQ gets a clue and folds (or sometimes folds the turn), but you're still a favorite HU vs KK since some of his boat outs are gone.


Tom