Medium Pairs and Marginal Broadway Hands - To Raise or Not to Raise?

[BigDan9]

I play 9- or 10-handed FR games (200 and 400) against a motley crew of donkeys, nits and strong players - even a few, incredibly, who might be better than me!

Fairly obviously, I'm very happy to open raise from the last three or four spots with hands like TT, KQs, ATs and better. Sometimes that takes down the blinds and a couple of limpers or, if not, I need a very good reason not to cbet into one or two opponents post-flop and try to take it down there and then. If I can't, well, that's another story...

Anyway, where I'm struggling is what to do with more marginal hands like KTo, 88 and QJs in around the MP2 and MP3/Hijack positions. I find myself limping a lot and wondering whether I should have raised and used the same strategy I do in the CO and Button and with my better holdings in earlier position.

I know we could debate how to play specific hands like KTo (probably using the word "fold" a lot) until the cows come home, but what do we think is the best move with these kind of hands as a general rule in those mid-late positions? Limp and try to catch a flop or raise and hope nobody in better position calls?

[iponnet]

raise 88 from any position ifact you should raise most PPs higher than 55s from almost any position! forget about k10o, only time you play that is when you trying to steal the blinds.... QJs/J10s is better to limp in EP, MP, raise in hijack/btn.

gl

[Split Suit]

[ QUOTE ]
raise 88 from any position ifact you should raise most PPs higher than 55s from almost any position! forget about k10o, only time you play that is when you trying to steal the blinds.... QJs/J10s is better to limp in EP, MP, raise in hijack/btn.

gl

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plz name 3 difference between 22-44, and 55-77

[ActionStan]

- I lose more with 77
- 77 puts me to more tricky 1 overcard decisions
- 77 sometimes feels almost strong but never is.


Maybe I should put this over on the leaks thread:
- I play mid small-mid pairs more strongly than I play baby pairs

[Jeans]

In full ring smaller pocket pairs are very hard to play. In smaller stakes NL100 or less I always limped them from pretty much any position, and openraised from button/CO, but at NL200-400 I don't think this is a profitable strategy, in early position I (usually) fold 22-88, and start opening more of them as I get to better position, from CO and BTN you should obviously openraise all the pairs, most of the time I overlimp if ther are 2 limpers, and raise one limper (depending on the player). Then again hands like KTo are crap, only play hands like that from CO/BTN and always come in raising if you decide to play them.

[iponnet]

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raise 88 from any position ifact you should raise most PPs higher than 55s from almost any position! forget about k10o, only time you play that is when you trying to steal the blinds.... QJs/J10s is better to limp in EP, MP, raise in hijack/btn.

gl

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plz name 3 difference between 22-44, and 55-77

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66/77 is actually a hand,,
when you raise 22 in ep they dont put you on 22 they put u on a higher pair and will set hunt you and guess what if you are playing for stacks with a set of 2s what you think they have? with 66/77 there is a better chance you have the better set

you win little money when you hit your set, lose alot when they also hit, low PPs in 'EP' are losers/very marginal winners, in the 'long run' more than 100k hands

[diebitter]

iponnet is correct in that in decent games, playing little pairs early doesn't do you that much good if you're ABC TAG.

I'd add the caveat you can raise or even limp 22 early if you have a well-developed LAG strategy and image, as you could be playing anything in that spot (a well-developed LAG strat includes the possibility of limping AA or JJ or 98s or even Axs early, so you know). For ABC TAG, middle pairs upwards (99+) should be raised in EP (everything should be raised in EP for an ABC TAG).

[Split Suit]

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raise 88 from any position ifact you should raise most PPs higher than 55s from almost any position! forget about k10o, only time you play that is when you trying to steal the blinds.... QJs/J10s is better to limp in EP, MP, raise in hijack/btn.

gl

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plz name 3 difference between 22-44, and 55-77

[/ QUOTE ]

66/77 is actually a hand,,
when you raise 22 in ep they dont put you on 22 they put u on a higher pair and will set hunt you and guess what if you are playing for stacks with a set of 2s what you think they have? with 66/77 there is a better chance you have the better set

you win little money when you hit your set, lose alot when they also hit, low PPs in 'EP' are losers/very marginal winners, in the 'long run' more than 100k hands

[/ QUOTE ]

at what level does 66/77 become "actually a hand"?

i dont 100% mean this to come out arguementative, and for all intensive purposes, its probably -EV for me to even have this conversation...but ur logic makes no sense. ur logic seems to account for the fact that 66/77 are actual hands, yet money only seems to go in when its set>set situations (thats the way ur wording makes ur thoughts appear). (also, out of curiosity...what % of the time u hit a set, do u think some1 has one as well. and better yet, a bigger one?)

the real reason u raise all pairs from all spots is for a few reasons. 1.) u take betting lead and iniative. 2.) because of this, ur CB will b more successful. 3.) when u hit a set, there is already money in the pot.

and on an aside...i will bet u $100 that i can produce at least 5 ppl by Sunday who are not losing money with their 22-88 from EP over 100K+ hands.

[Belok]

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and on an aside...i will bet u $100 that i can produce at least 5 ppl by Sunday who are not losing money with their 22-88 from EP over 100K+ hands.

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1

[iponnet]

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raise 88 from any position ifact you should raise most PPs higher than 55s from almost any position! forget about k10o, only time you play that is when you trying to steal the blinds.... QJs/J10s is better to limp in EP, MP, raise in hijack/btn.

gl

[/ QUOTE ]

plz name 3 difference between 22-44, and 55-77

[/ QUOTE ]

66/77 is actually a hand,,
when you raise 22 in ep they dont put you on 22 they put u on a higher pair and will set hunt you and guess what if you are playing for stacks with a set of 2s what you think they have? with 66/77 there is a better chance you have the better set

you win little money when you hit your set, lose alot when they also hit, low PPs in 'EP' are losers/very marginal winners, in the 'long run' more than 100k hands

[/ QUOTE ]

at what level does 66/77 become "actually a hand"?

i dont 100% mean this to come out arguementative, and for all intensive purposes, its probably -EV for me to even have this conversation...but ur logic makes no sense. ur logic seems to account for the fact that 66/77 are actual hands, yet money only seems to go in when its set>set situations (thats the way ur wording makes ur thoughts appear). (also, out of curiosity...what % of the time u hit a set, do u think some1 has one as well. and better yet, a bigger one?)

the real reason u raise all pairs from all spots is for a few reasons. 1.) u take betting lead and iniative. 2.) because of this, ur CB will b more successful. 3.) when u hit a set, there is already money in the pot.

and on an aside...i will bet u $100 that i can produce at least 5 ppl by Sunday who are not losing money with their 22-88 from EP over 100K+ hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

I did say they could be marginal winners but it would take an acceptional palyer to make them marginal winners in EP, now in NL50 and lower well they will be obv. winners but when you get higher NL200 above (maybe NL100 I havent played it for a long time) people arent handing you money left and right without a hand, and they become very marginal...

lets put it this way when a 14/7 player raises UTG you dont call with AXo/K10 etc.... but do with all PPs! why? because you know he has a good hand. you might call with Axs QJs/J10s and other hands with HUGE potential for the same reason, now if you are utg and are raising 22/33 guess what the people in LP are calling with? thats if they know wth they are doing!

they might call with 10sJs flp comes 4s7d10d you bet, they are still not sure if you have a premium PP or AK/AQ and call turn is a blank where you most probably will ck, and river you might win with a big bet or dig your 22s in a bigger whole! and the latter will probably me true since you cked the turn and villan will call more often...