On buying accounts and why you should care

[sirio11]

I made a post on the High Stakes forum about this topic but didn't have any luck (no replies, too theoretical?, non-important topic?). So I decided to post it on the Poker Theory forum and have better luck, I got one reply [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] by Dr. Zebra.


<font color="green"> My question was: </font>

Lets suppose you have an average stack on the Sunday Million with 18 people left, and you're a winner player, lets say 50% ROI.
A break even player (0% ROI) is the chip leader, with about 1/4 of the chips in play.

Now a good player, lets say one with a 100% ROI buys the account of the mediocre break even player and starts playing the last 2 tables.

Using numbers from the last Sunday million

1st $185,760
2nd $96,755
3rd $69,628
9th $8,009
10-18th $5,942

How this transaction affects your equity? How much money do you lose because of the transaction?


<font color="green"> Here is his answer </font> :

ok. let's start off with a few unrealistic assumptions:

1. let's simplify some of the numbers: payouts are
200k, 100k, 70k, 50k, 40k, 30k, 20k, 12k, 8k, and 9 spots at 6k each.
2. the 18 players have equal chips
3. 17 people average 50% ROI and one person averaged 0% ROI and now is someone who averages 100% ROI
4. There are exactly 2000 entrants for 500+30 and 200 pay

the results should be nearly obvious because of the oversimplification, but i think the scratch work below is correct in case you want to loosen the assumptions (ie make the field more diverse...)

this is the pre-deal equity for a random 50% ROI player with these assumptions:

584k*[(1.5)(530)-E(416k/182))/(584k/18+530)]/
[17*((1.5)(530)-E(416k/182))/(584k/18+530))+(1)(530)-F(416k/182))/(584k/18+530)]

where E and F are the expressions = (1+ROI)(Buyin)/(TotalPrizePool/entrants + Buyin)

your new equity is:

584k*[(1.5)(530)-E(416k/182))/(584k/18+530)]/
[17*((1.5)(530)-E(416k/182))/(584k/18+530))+(2)(530)-F(416k/182))/(584k/18+530)]

which simplifies to:
pre-deal: 33,056.70
postdeal: 31,854.30


Hopefully this generates some good discussion between the community

David

[greg nice]

Post deleted by BadgerPro

[[Phill]]

Im not much of a math guy, ill assume all the numbers are right etc.

Either way, it was always a given that even a good player being 'replaced' with a better player would always hit your bottom line equity wise.

Fwiw, i dont think it should be allowed; but i understand the reasons why it is and if it is allowed and as such i cant really blame people for doing it.

Also, ive never understood the mentality of someone who sells their account like this - i mean how much do they make out of a deal, is it a one off fixed payment or a % or what?

I dont play enough large buy in tourneys, but the one time i went deep in a sunday major playing the last few tables was one of the greatest moments of poker for me which i would have never sold off.

[Rekwob]

of course it shouldnt be allowed and i dont think anyone will say it doesnt have an effect (obviously less of an effect if you're on a different table etc), but as always you have to be able to come up with a way for the sites to guard against it, and when they allow a friend to take over if you have an emergency, i dont see how they can stop it that way.

maybe have something that calculates your equity in the tournament, so if players cant buy accounts on the cheap, maybe they wont do it?

[Ansky]

Hey known account buyers,

Thoughts?

[sirio11]

[ QUOTE ]
Hey known account buyers,

Thoughts?

[/ QUOTE ]

Ansky, tricky question:

Let's suppose the 100% ROI guy does not buy the account, he's a pretty religious and compassionate man who goes around the world helping his fellow donkish tournament poker players.

Is the equity of the 50% ROI guy less affected?

[CountChocula]

I agree, why play if you dont intend to play until your last hand. Would you get more satisfaction seeing the person you sold it to bust out on a draw etc.

Play to win and keep all of your money

[Ansky]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hey known account buyers,

Thoughts?

[/ QUOTE ]

Ansky, tricky question:

Let's suppose the 100% ROI guy does not buy the account, he's a pretty religious and compassionate man who goes around the world helping his fellow donkish tournament poker players.

Is the equity of the 50% ROI guy less affected?

[/ QUOTE ]

i dont understand what you are asking? if the account is still played by the breakeven player, obv the 50% players edge goes up.

[timex]

[ QUOTE ]
I agree, why play if you dont intend to play until your last hand.



[/ QUOTE ]
Because no one actually has the bankroll for tournaments like this

[ QUOTE ]

Would you get more satisfaction seeing the person you sold it to bust out on a draw etc.


[/ QUOTE ]

Certainly

[timex]

[ QUOTE ]
Hey known account buyers,

Thoughts?

[/ QUOTE ]

My thoughts are that it does decrease the chipleader's equity significantly(sorry gobbo), but I also wonder what does it really matter.

Assume we come up with the exact number for how much equity you lose in this situation, how does that benefit us in any way? Whether he loses $1 or $1000000, it doesn't really matter, quantifying this is of no benefit.

To Sirio, ask more specific questions(any questions?) and you will probably get replies, I just don't know how/why to make a reasonable reply to this thread.