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  #21  
Old 11-20-2007, 02:50 PM
LucidDream LucidDream is offline
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Default Re: NFD facing flop c/r

jesus dude, he's just saying that SB can easily be c/r'ing w/ his entire range of hands that missed the flop as well as the range of hands that hit. he can also be c/r'ing a worse flush draw for that matter where he is dominated badly. therefore FE does exist and we will have outs still when he has a real hand.
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  #22  
Old 11-20-2007, 02:56 PM
Knock*u*down Knock*u*down is offline
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Default Re: NFD facing flop c/r

As desribed his range is not very wide and also this board combined with the stacksizes is not very likely for a c/r with air.I would be very pleased if you could tell me a range which in your oppinion villian could c/r here and fits the description of villian so i can figure out how many % he has to do the the c/r with air to make 3 bet profitable.
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  #23  
Old 11-20-2007, 03:17 PM
Unarmed Unarmed is offline
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Default Re: NFD facing flop c/r

[ QUOTE ]
he can also be c/r'ing a worse flush draw for that matter where he is dominated badly.

[/ QUOTE ]

there.
thread over.
change his hand to non nut FD and continue thread if u want.
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  #24  
Old 11-20-2007, 03:36 PM
van_exel_fan van_exel_fan is offline
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Default Re: NFD facing flop c/r

Villian could also be raising w/ JJ or QQ here (and probably not folding) J10cc, QJcc are also not folding but you are +ev against all of these hands. He will not be folding 89,99,88,22 obv so if you three-bet, he will probably shove quite often and you will always be beat and have to call. However, by just calling, if you hit the flush you will not get paid by qq, jj, 1010, 2pair, but sets will still go to the river w/ 10 outs. Lower flushes pay you everytime. Folding may be your best play here.
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  #25  
Old 11-20-2007, 03:39 PM
philipsaurus philipsaurus is offline
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Default Re: NFD facing flop c/r

[ QUOTE ]
Villian could also be raising w/ JJ or QQ here (and probably not folding) J10cc, QJcc are also not folding but you are +ev against all of these hands. He will not be folding 89,99,88,22 obv so if you three-bet, he will probably shove quite often and you will always be beat and have to call. However, by just calling, if you hit the flush you will not get paid by qq, jj, 1010, 2pair, but sets will still go to the river w/ 10 outs. Lower flushes pay you everytime. Folding may be your best play here.

[/ QUOTE ]

this makes my head hurt
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  #26  
Old 11-20-2007, 03:51 PM
coldi coldi is offline
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Default Re: NFD facing flop c/r

i think the SB can be raising sth. like JT here too, although most times i see him having a set here. I would probably just muck it since 3bet/fold is not an option imo, with 3bet/call we mostly put our money in behind so fold seems logical to me
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  #27  
Old 11-20-2007, 04:08 PM
markuisis markuisis is offline
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Default Re: NFD facing flop c/r

3bet, u figure he could be semi-bluffing with worse fds or straight draws, could be doing this with TT or JJ if he chose to not to 3bet pf, or maybe even 109, all of which will probably fold to a 3bet and even if they dont ur roughly a coinflip and therefore should get it in. Obviously hell also have a set or 89 sometimes but its not like those r the only hands in his range and yet those r the only hands in his range where it would be bad to 3bet.
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  #28  
Old 11-20-2007, 04:51 PM
Knock*u*down Knock*u*down is offline
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Default Re: NFD facing flop c/r

How could someone with the above describtion ever have a hand like T9 here ? Thas is soooo unlikely nearly impossible imho
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  #29  
Old 11-20-2007, 04:54 PM
markuisis markuisis is offline
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Default Re: NFD facing flop c/r

[ QUOTE ]
How could someone with the above describtion ever have a hand like T9 here ? Thas is soooo unlikely nearly impossible imho

[/ QUOTE ]

i said maybe, i dont think its very likely but that isnt the only hand in villains range which a 3bet would be profitable against.
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  #30  
Old 11-20-2007, 04:56 PM
Renton Renton is offline
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Default Re: NFD facing flop c/r

ARE PPL SRSLY ADVOCATING FOLDING TEH_NUTZ HERE?
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