Hitler And God

David Sklansky · #1 05-14-2007, 12:46 AM

Okay, I admit this post will be so simplistic it could have been thought up by a six year old. But it still needs to be said.

Not Ready is fond of invoking Hitler when discussing the subject of right and wrong in a godless world. How can someone say that Hitler was inherently "wrong" to kill six million Jews if there is no God to say he was? He probably had what he thought were good reasons. He probably wasn't just a sicko sadist.

And although I haven't seriously analyzed that statement, I think it is technically correct. Regardless of what the hi falootin philosophers say.

But wait. Inherent in this statement is the common sense (but not strictly logical) implication that God WOULD have considered Hitler wrong. But why? I mean these people will soon burn in hell for eternity anyway. Is God mad at Hitler because a miniscule percentage of them would have converted to Christianity? Or because it is his job, not Hitler's, to torture those that don't? Perhaps. But I don't think this is what Not Ready was getting at. So I think he ought to find a better example than one that even a six year old could find fault with.

kingofmirrors · #2 05-14-2007, 01:03 AM

if hitler only killed jews who refused to accept christ, as opposed to anyone with jewish blood, im guessing more than a miniscule percentage would have converted.

maybe that was god's issue. he wanted another crusade?

edit: i think hitler broke a couple commandments too. if you use the bible as the ultimate standard of morality you can answer this question, but that would have pretty serious implications regarding a) the fates of everyone but fundamentalists and b) the nature of god himself.

PairTheBoard · #3 05-14-2007, 01:05 AM

You are too corrupt to judge "God's" justice David. Do you know why you can't understand that? It's because you are too corrupt. There is no logical problem here.

PairTheBoard

bunny · #4 05-14-2007, 01:06 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Inherent in this statement is the common sense (but not strictly logical) implication that God WOULD have considered Hitler wrong. But why?

[/ QUOTE ]
[img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]
Wont it go something like:

God thinks we should do good things (from the interpreted bible)
Hitler did bad things (as defined in the interpreted bible)
God thinks Hitler was wrong? (by logic, probably backed up with quotes and interpretation of the bible)

Call me dumber than a 6 year old, but I dont get why Hitler is such a bad example of a person most would consider immoral.

Lestat · #5 05-14-2007, 01:06 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Okay, I admit this post will be so simplistic it could have been thought up by a six year old. But it still needs to be said.

Not Ready is fond of invoking Hitler when discussing the subject of right and wrong in a godless world. How can someone say that Hitler was inherently "wrong" to kill six million Jews if there is no God to say he was? He probably had what he thought were good reasons. He probably wasn't just a sicko sadist.

And although I haven't seriously analyzed that statement, I think it is technically correct. Regardless of what the hi falootin philosophers say.

But wait. Inherent in this statement is the common sense (but not strictly logical) implication that God WOULD have considered Hitler wrong. But why? I mean these people will soon burn in hell for eternity anyway. Is God mad at Hitler because a miniscule percentage of them would have converted to Christianity? Or because it is his job, not Hitler's, to torture those that don't? Perhaps. But I don't think this is what Not Ready was getting at. So I think he ought to find a better example than one that even a six year old could find fault with.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't understand what you're getting at. What difference does it make if a percentage of Hitler's victims were sinners, saints, or would-be converts? God would consider it wrong to destroy precious God-given life. That makes perfect sense to me, and I don't even believe in God. ??

More important in refuting these very weak arguments about mass murderers who happened to be atheists, is to point out that morality does not need to eminate from a singular or central source. Morality is just another product of our evolution and hence, further evidence for it.

bunny · #6 05-14-2007, 01:07 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Morality is just another product of our evolution and hence, further evidence for it.

[/ QUOTE ]
You dont consider this circular?

Phil153 · #7 05-14-2007, 01:09 AM

Or more simply: "How can you say God is good if you can't say anything about the actions of Hitler?"

bunny · #8 05-14-2007, 01:10 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Or more simply: "How can you say God is good if you can't say anything about the actions of Hitler?"

[/ QUOTE ]
Thanks. I'm now as smart as a six year old [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]

PairTheBoard · #9 05-14-2007, 01:15 AM

I think Sklansky's point is yet another argument against hell rather than one about God being the Absolute for what's right and wrong. Like he says, it's the 6 year old's observation that it doesn't make sense for God to condemn the killing of people who God just intends to torture for eternity anyway. Although, I suppose you could argue that it does make sense that God condemns Hitler because Hitler sent the Jews on their way to eternal torture sooner than God had intended.

PairTheBoard

Lestat · #10 05-14-2007, 01:15 AM

<font color="blue">Call me dumber than a 6 year old, but I dont get why Hitler is such a bad example of a person most would consider immoral. </font>

The question is why it is assumed that God considers Hitler wrong. Not why we would.

There is a real problem in attributing our morality to God and that is, we must assume our own sense of morality is perfect in order to do so. And once again, we find ourselves on the merry-go-round of Christian logic.