40-80 Commerce Line - Way Ahead Heads Up

[leo doc]

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"it really doesn't matter what you do"

wow see that's just really wrong. weird stuff happens all the time lhe, making mortal nuts hands is not rare at all and is worthy of discussion. how you play each hand really does matter. the apathy of "it doesnt matter", or its cousin, the way overused "it's close" are mediocre, non-commital, and non-analytical. yuck.

it does matter. you should check because you have the guy crushed and dont want to scare him off some hand that might pair on the river if he checks plus he might happily bet or bluff if checked to. against most players you will make significantly more here by checking.

that said, your play pf and on the flop are non-standard and you need to recognize that a lot of really good 40-80 players on here would routinely 3 bet your hand pf and/or c/r the flop if they had just called p/f, and theyd have several excellent reasons for doing so.

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Damn, that was really well-spoken. Diplomatic, insightful, articulate and, best of all, flame-free. I think I have a new favorite poster.

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He was mine first!

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Well...just take your snowball and go home then.

[surfdoc]

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"it really doesn't matter what you do"

wow see that's just really wrong. weird stuff happens all the time lhe, making mortal nuts hands is not rare at all and is worthy of discussion. how you play each hand really does matter. the apathy of "it doesnt matter", or its cousin, the way overused "it's close" are mediocre, non-commital, and non-analytical. yuck.

it does matter. you should check because you have the guy crushed and dont want to scare him off some hand that might pair on the river if he checks plus he might happily bet or bluff if checked to. against most players you will make significantly more here by checking.

that said, your play pf and on the flop are non-standard and you need to recognize that a lot of really good 40-80 players on here would routinely 3 bet your hand pf and/or c/r the flop if they had just called p/f, and theyd have several excellent reasons for doing so.

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Damn, that was really well-spoken. Diplomatic, insightful, articulate and, best of all, flame-free. I think I have a new favorite poster.

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He was mine first!

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Well...just take your snowball and go home then.

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I really doubt all the ass-kissing in the world will get mike to start posting as much as used to but it is still worth a try considering he has most likely posted the highest volume of solid advice in the history of 2p2 for the limit forums.

As far as the hand goes, the turn is an easy CR. Just need a little luck for him to have a K or better and get paid off. If the river pairs just make sure you appropriately call your hand as "quads full" when you table it.

[leo doc]

"I really doubt all the ass-kissing in the world will get mike to start posting as much as used to but it is still worth a try considering he has most likely posted the highest volume of solid advice in the history of 2p2 for the limit forums."

Now THAT is a really good ass-backwards ass-kissing compliment. Snowball, we've been one-upped.

[andyfox]

This is a really important post. In no limit, players can protect their hands, so you don't see "weird" stuff happen so much. In limit, guys hit "unexpected" sets or inside straights, runner-runner flushes, etc.

That said, quads are of course rare and, in that sense, it "doesn't matter." But, as Mike points out, it does matter. Because in a session, your profit is very defpendent on how you play 4-5 key hands. And each of them might be "weird."

It sure would be a shame if the guy folded to your bet here. I posted the Fox Corollary a long time ago: when flopping quads, bet the flop and check the turn. It was done with a little tongue-in-cheekiness, but Mike's reasons for checking here make sense to me.

[leo doc]

For the benefit of the "new guys" (e.g., me), would you be so kind as to re-post the Fox Corollary? And, for those of us (e.g., me) that may not be able to fully appreciate your sharp wit and/or "tongue-in-cheekiness", could we get the "are you smarter than a fifth grader?" version.

P.S. You're still (secretly) my favorite poster, Andy.

[andyfox]

With quads, bet the flop, check the turn.

[leo doc]

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With quads, bet the flop, check the turn.

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LOL. I asked for it. But, what was the "tongue-in-cheek" part?

[ShawnHoo]

I agree with everyone else that you needed to get more value pre and post.

As played, though, I'd bet this turn. You'll get a call from a big spade that would have taken the free card. You'll get a call from a K or AA, and you'll get raised if he's somehow also flopped big.

FWIW, in my experience I have flopped straights/FHs headsup in these types of spots and used the c/c flop, donk turn line and gotten much more action that I could have ever imagined.

[Captain R]

If the opponent is aggressive and does the standard "raise turn when you do the weak-ass donk", I like a turn bet. I think it also looks so retarded, that he may think you are on a straight/flush draw and pay you off anyway with an underpair or Ace-high.

Otherwise, I'm not sure what line you're going to take here. Check-raise will work if he's suspicious and call down lightly, but it's fairly likely to blow him off a hand. You could check-call turn and bet river.

But I think betting the turn and river has a really high chance of getting 2 BB out of the guy, whereas a c/r has a really high chance of getting 1 BB out of the guy.

[Gap23Razor]

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called heads up from the big blind with JJ. Flop is Js-Ks-8x. I check, he bets, I call. Turn is case J. You bet or check?



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is there a bonus for quads? and what are the rules for it? do you only win the bonus if the and is involved in a showdown? if yes to all the above, just check/call...