A4s: lost post-flop

private joker · #1 08-12-2007, 08:13 AM

Commerce 40.

BB is not terrible, but playing too loose and tilting a lot because he's card dead and missing all the weak draws he keeps chasing.

MP is loose-passive fishy.

2 limpers to me in the SB and I complete with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. BB raises, we all call.

Flop comes 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. I decide to bet hoping to get it HU with BB. He just calls, and MP calls too. Hrmm...

Turn is 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. I lead again with my pair + flush draw. Both players call again. Hrmm...

River is K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. Now wtf do I do?

cowboy billy · #2 08-12-2007, 08:32 AM

I'd check/fold

leading out is not an option and check/calling seems like a -EV play to me

Carmine · #3 08-12-2007, 08:33 AM

If they didn't fold the turn they're not folding river.
Check and don't overcall obviously. I will call a bet from BB. I don't think we get MP to drop a better hand given his description and if he bets I think we can fold without a second thought.

smurfitup · #4 08-12-2007, 08:47 AM

check and probably call a bet from bb if mp folds. fold to a bet from mp.

blackasthma · #5 08-12-2007, 09:01 AM

If you're behind, the hands beating you right now are a pair of kings, sixes, 77, or 55 (seems MP raises flop w/eights). Will a bet get any of these to fold? No way BB folds a king, but can you really put him on kings? He could have AQ, AJ, A10, or worse (btw, I check to BB if HU). MP could have you beat with one of the other hands, but will he fold?

Let's say BB folds. Certainly the Kc doesn't scare MP since you've been leading all along. With 7 big bets in the pot, will MP fold his "winner" more than 15% of the time? Possibly. Factor in the times MP calls you with a worse hand (e.g., 45, A2, 33), and I think this is an easy river bet.

Now let's say BB calls your river bet. If BB is calling on air, will MP fold? I still think it's worth a bet to find out. Checking can only lose you this pot, imo. Not a choice river card, but I bet anyway.

Lastly, what if BB raises - do you call? Certainly not if MP calls. But would BB bluff-raise in this spot? Sounds unlikely from your description.

I think all signs point to a b/f in this situation...

PokerBob · #6 08-12-2007, 03:39 PM

surrender.

PokerBob · #7 08-12-2007, 03:40 PM

[ QUOTE ]

Now let's say BB calls your river bet. If BB is calling on air, will MP fold?

[/ QUOTE ]

why the hell would BB call with nothing on the river after we have bet every single street????

blackasthma · #8 08-12-2007, 03:57 PM

uhhh....what's he called with so far???

PokerBob · #9 08-12-2007, 04:02 PM

[ QUOTE ]
uhhh....what's he called with so far???

[/ QUOTE ]

maybe nothing. but he cannot call the river with nothing. isn't that obvious?

blackasthma · #10 08-12-2007, 04:05 PM

The bet has nothing to do with BB. I'm trying to get MP to either make a bad call or a bad fold...