Frustrating situations lately.

[larsjones]

I've been playing many sng's lately, and I've been playing well until I inevitable run into the same situation. That situation?

QQ vs KK.

I had the same thing happen in no fewer than 4 tournaments last week in Vegas. 3 of the four tourneys were hands where I covered the opponent.

What are some things I should look at, in terms of bet sizing that could help me get away from this tough spot?

Is anyone here able to avoid this spot with real frequency? How are you doing it?

Thanks

[rrrorrim]

Speaking just on pocket pairs,
QQ and JJ are difficult because they're more "special" than they are "useful." KK is equally "special" and "useful." And AA is more "useful" than it is "special."

Does that make sense?

I am by no means a poker genius, but I have found a way to excel at single table SnGs, and that is to "undervalue" your hand (in contrast to the swarms of fish who overvalue).

So if you have QQ and raise strong PF, and someone reraises you, they often have at least an Ace or a King with a small kicker. But probably something like KQs or AKo. Do you really want to put yourself in a 60/40 (something like that) situation? If they reraise big, you should seriously consider folding.

You will have other better chances to get chips, like:

1) stealing blinds and continuation bets against the right player(s)
2) a premium hand that doesn't meet strong resistance

- situations that are much more in your favor.

I'm wary with QQ and JJ. Small pocket pairs are easier to deal with - with them, you know you'll probably lose a multiway pot, but you want to build the pot up slightly so that when you do hit a set you can get paid off so much that it compensates for all the times you had pocket pair and didn't hit a set.

But like I said, QQ and JJ are waryworthy because they're not completely "premium" - nor are they a minor pocket pair. Rather, they are in the transition between the two extremes.

So, to answer your question...
The 1) flop and the 2) other players will give your QQ and JJ identity. In one situation QQ is a premium hand, in another it is a small pocket pair.

Sorry for rambling... I'm learning myself and like to put things in writing. Helps me organize my thoughts. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[Javanewt]

QQ is only a pair. It is a big pair, but it can be dominated. You really need to pay attention to who is calling/raising you, their M, your M, position, tendencies, etc. When all is said and done, you have one pair. Raise, but if you get a caller or a re-raise, keep the pot small unless your M is so low that you have to push or you set up. Fold to real aggression if there's a chance you are dominated, especially if it will cripple you.

[rrrorrim]

Yeah, M is real important too.

Not just because it helps you figure out what the opponent has (when weighed with his playing style)

but also because a high M opens your options...

[basementproject]

[ QUOTE ]
Do you really want to put yourself in a 60/40 (something like that) situation?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes. Every single time.

[rrrorrim]

[ QUOTE ]
Yes. Every single time.

[/ QUOTE ]

We'll discuss it later. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[basementproject]

Show me the light! [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

[rrrorrim]

Well you already see the light... and obviously you're right- 60/40 will pay you off over time.

I'm referring to my weird ass single-table SnG strategy (that when refined will allow me to multitable and get in the money often) [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[PantsOnFire]

Here are some things I do.

Early on, I am not as happy with QQ. Sure I'll raise with it and reraise another raiser. But if it's early and I am deep, I really think twice about going all the way with it. I find the players with AK do not joust as much with re-raises. A guy with AA will keep raising back, playing with you.

Also, I am very wary of big action before me like raise, re-raise and then an all-in. The same thing if I start the raising and it comes back to me with 2 guys all-in and I only have a small chunk of my stack in the pot. I'll usually fold QQ in both these spots unless I am fairly desparate.

If I'm raising heads up against one guy and blinds are big, I'm going all-in. Again if the blinds are getting large and there is a raise in front of and now the pot is getting close to 1/4 to 1/3 of my stack, I am pushing.

So in summary, I think you will see KK (or AA) vs your QQ a lot more often when there are multiple players acting strong in deep stack situations (well there are maniacs too but ...). If you see KK when the blinds are big and it's against one player, it's just bad luck.

So look back at your tournaments where it happened and tell us the scenarios to see if it fits with my above analysis.

[larsjones]

The most frustrating one, and the reason for my post went like this. It was a live tournament, so there is no actual HH or converter.

It was 3 hands after the first hour break at the Sahara. Average stack was right around 7000. I was at 9800. Blinds of 100/200....no ante.

I'm a pretty significant big stack at my table. I took some rough hits early on, but I made a few plays that turned out really nicely for me(limped in a 7 way pot with 89 spades, hit the straight on the flop.....2 pushers, I call, bingo). This happened twice, obviously with different cards.

I was feeling like I was getting a decent amount of respet at the table, but the others still viewed me as a bit maniacal.

In any case, I was two seats behind the button, and I look down at QQ. 3 Players had limped before me, so I made it 1000 to go. Folds around to the button, a very quiet older guy, who's shown down absolute garbage before. He only has 3600. He's looking at KK, so he gets it all in. Folds over to me, and I feel like this is a spot where I need to call. I do, and the rest is history.

Following that hand, I tightened up WAY WAY WAY too much. I ended up looking at the possibility of broomcorning a few levels later, and ended up convincing myself to push with QJs. I ran into AK, which held up.

Is my big issue with this particular game my QQ hand, or how I played following? Any suggestions how to read the hand a little better? Any thoughts on how to maintain solid play after a seemingly bad decision?

Thanks,
Lars