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Old 11-25-2007, 03:00 AM
that_pope that_pope is offline
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Default Help me stumble through this hand...

Posted in 3 parts as we progress. I wish I remember more about the board, but I am fairly confident it wasn't a big part of the hand.

Casino AZ 20/40

I have been playing overly loose even for me, and the two players in this hand know it more so than others. UTG+1 is poster Howard Beale, who has 3 bet me a few times preflop this session already, including when I raised with AQ, and he had AK, and I check called a 993 flop, and check folded a 3 turn, because I really didn't want to see two more bets go in hoping for a chop. Cut off is a loosish player who also gets aggressive early in hands, and ends up folding rivers a lot after putting in a lot of action, so it is safe to say he likes pumping up his draws, but he knows both Howard and I are winning players and a Howard 3 bet can't be much less than 99+ and AQ+ against my UTG raise.

So I open UTG with KK and Howard instantly 3 bets me, folded to LP and he thinks for a second and then caps, blinds fold, and both of us call.

Flop comes QTx, no suits, and I.....
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  #2  
Old 11-25-2007, 03:05 AM
DcifrThs DcifrThs is offline
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Default Re: Help me stumble through this hand...

[ QUOTE ]
Posted in 3 parts as we progress. I wish I remember more about the board, but I am fairly confident it wasn't a big part of the hand.

Casino AZ 20/40

I have been playing overly loose even for me, and the two players in this hand know it more so than others. UTG+1 is poster Howard Beale, who has 3 bet me a few times preflop this session already, including when I raised with AQ, and he had AK, and I check called a 993 flop, and check folded a 3 turn, because I really didn't want to see two more bets go in hoping for a chop. Cut off is a loosish player who also gets aggressive early in hands, and ends up folding rivers a lot after putting in a lot of action, so it is safe to say he likes pumping up his draws, but he knows both Howard and I are winning players and a Howard 3 bet can't be much less than 99+ and AQ+ against my UTG raise.

So I open UTG with KK and Howard instantly 3 bets me, folded to LP and he thinks for a second and then caps, blinds fold, and both of us call.

Flop comes QTx, no suits, and I.....

[/ QUOTE ]

c'r.

Barron
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  #3  
Old 11-25-2007, 04:18 AM
Howard Beale Howard Beale is offline
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Default Re: Help me stumble through this hand...

When it's capped pf a Queen is the second worst card that can come for your Kings, imo, if the capper is a straightforward player so I don't think you should so easily say that it wasn't a big part of the hand. However, this isn't necessarily the case here. CO is a thinker and I'm sure he beats the game also. After watching us play a couple of hands he could easily conclude that it's AQ v. AK again and he's gonna cap w/ his 8-8 or something.

I already told you my opinion so I won't say anything else at least for now.
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  #4  
Old 11-25-2007, 04:47 AM
that_pope that_pope is offline
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Default Re: Help me stumble through this hand...

[ QUOTE ]
When it's capped pf a Queen is the second worst card that can come for your Kings, imo, if the capper is a straightforward player so I don't think you should so easily say that it wasn't a big part of the hand. However, this isn't necessarily the case here. CO is a thinker and I'm sure he beats the game also. After watching us play a couple of hands he could easily conclude that it's AQ v. AK again and he's gonna cap w/ his 8-8 or something.

I already told you my opinion so I won't say anything else at least for now.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry if I was confusing. By me saying boardcards weren't important, it meant that I am basically gonna lay the board out as QTxxx, because I can't remember [censored] about the other 3, as I was fixed on the Q and the T...I could make stuff up, since I don't think a flush or a lower set played a part in my decision making, because any card that wasn't a 9 or higher I wasn't worried about...
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  #5  
Old 11-25-2007, 04:54 AM
Nate. Nate. is offline
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Default Re: Help me stumble through this hand...

that_pope--

HB's body language is pretty important here. Sounds like you should check and consider folding, either now or on the turn. If HB checks behind you I'd feel way better and in that case you should definitely definitely raise a LP bet.

Turn HB into a CAZ random and I'd check intending to raise and then put money in at every opportunity until I have a good reason not to.

--Nate

EDIT: Also, I couldn't get away with this, but maybe consider checkraising HB on that hand where you have AK.
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  #6  
Old 11-25-2007, 05:00 AM
that_pope that_pope is offline
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Default Re: Help me stumble through this hand...

I mentioned that I considered check raising for a half of second, and he said how would you like to be facing 3 bets, which I knew was a total bluff...if he threebets that board, I probably go into a call down monkey. But his range is so scewed toward AK+ and TT+ that I think the math and position speaks for itself.


EDIT IN BIG CAPS: This commentary was on the AK vs AQ hand, not the one in question...
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  #7  
Old 11-25-2007, 05:18 AM
Nate. Nate. is offline
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Default Re: Help me stumble through this hand...

[ QUOTE ]
I mentioned that I considered check raising for a half of second, and he said how would you like to be facing 3 bets, which I knew was a total bluff...if he threebets that board, I probably go into a call down monkey. But his range is so scewed toward AK+ and TT+ that I think the math and position speaks for itself.

[/ QUOTE ]

pope--

This is a weird hand to post, because it's so HB-specific. I don't know how he views you but I'd be very surprised if, after he checks, the right play involves anything other than putting maximal chips in the pot at every opportunity. I guess if LP is one of a few CAZ types I can think of, checkraising the flop and then checkraising the turn might be better. But even then, they might raise the turn if you bet and HB calls, in which case you've extracted more from HB.

Also, Bayes' Theroem tells me that LP is not as aware as you're making him out to be, because if he actually had an idea of what your and HB's ranges are here, he would probably be taking an acetylene torch to whatever hand he played preflop.

Howard--

I don't mean to criticize you in this thread. All I'm saying is that when you insta-3-bet Pope here your range is very narrow. Also, I usually don't give opponent-specific strategy on these forums, but everyone who reads already knows you play tight here, and anyway I figure these posts might help you steal a couple pots here or there later.

--Nate
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  #8  
Old 11-25-2007, 01:29 PM
Howard Beale Howard Beale is offline
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Default Re: Help me stumble through this hand...

[ QUOTE ]

Howard--

I don't mean to criticize you in this thread. All I'm saying is that when you insta-3-bet Pope here your range is very narrow. Also, I usually don't give opponent-specific strategy on these forums, but everyone who reads already knows you play tight here, and anyway I figure these posts might help you steal a couple pots here or there later.

--Nate

[/ QUOTE ]

C'mon, Nate! No worries from me. I'll take all the criticism I can get, that's what I'm reading/posting for and I'm the better for it. Anyway, Pope plays much looser than me and I'd already 3-bet him 3 or 4 times and he expects that if I'm playing against him it's almost certainly for a raise. That flop had my JJ surrounded so I was in a bad spot in a capped flop myself except that CO in this hand didn't necessarily have me beat.......

As to 'every one on here knows I play tight': Maybe I should start posting more hands, the quite a bit looser ones. It looks like somehow I've gotten an uber-tight image on here. It's not really the case. I'm a gear changing weasel if the truth be known.
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