example of police coercion

[bkholdem]

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One thing I always wondered is when a cop pulls you over do they really have a right to run the passengers ids as well as the drivers?

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I don't know and it may differ from state to state. But officers can always make up stories to cover their bs. So when I deal with cops (which is very rarely) I present myself as mr courtious do good citizen and coopeate. I don't dress or act like someone who would be involved with drugs or gangs or whatever, but in my past I have been beaten to the point of unconsciousness by police and other things as well.

But at a routine traffic stop if he wants me to get out of the care 'it is no longer routine' so I will change modes. Doors and windows all locked before exiting. And even though it would be unusual for anything illegal to be in my car he IS NOT searching that car without a warrant, or by using my keys while I clearly and loudly am stating I do not consent to this search. Or if a dog hits on a drug smell and that allows them to search. But lots of times they just say they will bring a drug dog to get you to volunteer permission. YOur not gonna get in EXTRA trouble by not volunteering and there is a very distinct chance they have no dog avaiable, or don't want to waste it on you. It is very very wrong for government to try to punnish you for asserting your rights and a lawyer can have a field day with this.

Same thing wiht "we can talk about it at the station" I say "If I am being arrested and taken to the station lets go!" and put my hands out to be cuffed (unless it was for something like having an open container and he tells me to pour it out, I"m pouring that shizat out, I"m not gonna f with him over my rights at that point if you get my drift.

I think they can use the 'suspicious person' angle to look at passanger ID's so if you don't dress or look like a pothead you avoid looking suspicious. Look up your local laws.

And it's never wrong to ask "Is that an order or a request officer?" (but when he asks for your drivers license after pulling you over this IS NOT the time to be asking such questions). If it's an order you do it, even if what he is ordering you to do is clearly illegal...straighten that out with internal affairs or a lawsuit or whatever at a later date, never struggle with cops when they are giving you 'orders'.

It's OK to be assertive, but BE POLITE and Courtious. If you come across as a dick, like you are f'ing wiht him on purpose, he will probably find a way to f u back. He does that for a living.

[PLOlover]

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The thing that jams people up with the video taping is that most video recorders have mic's and there are different laws and rules about vidio taping things that are in plain view and audio recording someone without their knowledge.

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yes but there's no expectation of privacy in public places, so 1 party 2 party laws don't apply.

[Taso]

BK, I've wondered about the locking the doors and closing the windows bit; How do you go about doing this? You get pulled over, you bring your window down, take the keys out, put your hands on the wheel. He asks you to get out, and instead, you put the keys back in the car, and start closing the window - how does the officer not think you are going to run? Do you ask him permission first; "May I close the window officer?"

[DblBarrelJ]

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BK, I've wondered about the locking the doors and closing the windows bit; How do you go about doing this? You get pulled over, you bring your window down, take the keys out, put your hands on the wheel. He asks you to get out, and instead, you put the keys back in the car, and start closing the window - how does the officer not think you are going to run? Do you ask him permission first; "May I close the window officer?"

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The officer would withdraw his ASP, and shatter your window, and claim to his superiors that he was attempting to stop you from fleeing.

[DblBarrelJ]

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Or if a dog hits on a drug smell and that allows them to search.

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Most K-9 Officers take the time to train their dogs to "hit" on command, if they feel it is needed. This is why I do not believe in drug dogs. I got stopped with a friend not long ago, and we happened to be coming from a firing range, so we had, amongst several guns, a video camera. He pulled the same routine "If you don't allow me to search, I'm calling for a dog" "Call for a dog" My friend video tapes the officer+dog walking around the vehicle, sees the officer tap on the vehicle, and the dog immediately hits. He then states "My dog hit, we're going to have to search the vehicle."

I didn't see it, as I'm cuffed, but my friend goes "We're leaving now. If you don't allow us to leave, I can assure you you'll lose your jobs." Cop goes "Yea, whatever" Then my friend goes "Check out what I've been up to" and shows him the video of the officer tapping.

Needless to say, we left, went directly to the sheriffs office, and turned over the tape.

[Chips Ahoy]

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The thing that jams people up with the video taping is that most video recorders have mic's and there are different laws and rules about vidio taping things that are in plain view and audio recording someone without their knowledge.

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yes but there's no expectation of privacy in public places, so 1 party 2 party laws don't apply.

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"There's been a rash of arrests of late for videotaping police, and it's a disturbing development."

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faces up to 10 years in prison. All for merely recording a police officer, a public servant, while he was on the job.

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[PLOlover]

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"There's been a rash of arrests of late for videotaping police, and it's a disturbing development."

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felony wiretapping charges

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yeah it's b.s. but the people arrested won't be able to fight in court so they won't win. It's the same as when a police come up and punch you in the face and then charge you with resisting arrest/assaulting an officer.

I mean, I guarantee you that if you code plead out the wiretapping law it does not apply to public places. having said that if you get too close to an officer performing his job they arrest you for interfering, but of course the police use that as an excuse to say you can't video them ever. like getting within 5 feet of an arrest and videoing it is the same as videoing from across the street.

bottom line: police will arrest you and then make stuff up and if you don't have a good lawyer you will get crushed by the system.

[bkholdem]

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BK, I've wondered about the locking the doors and closing the windows bit; How do you go about doing this? You get pulled over, you bring your window down, take the keys out, put your hands on the wheel. He asks you to get out, and instead, you put the keys back in the car, and start closing the window - how does the officer not think you are going to run? Do you ask him permission first; "May I close the window officer?"

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Have the drivers window rolled down a little and talk to him thorugh that. If he tells you to roll it down I would do it. If he doens't communicate through the 3 inch crack.

I have non power windows so it's no issue for me. If he tells me to stop rolling up my window i will stop (assming he is telling me to get out of the car). Then I lock the door on my way out of the car.

The main thing is "I'm sorry officer, I don't consent to searches. I would like to leave as soon as I am legally allowed to do so" He gives the bs guilt "if you have nothing to hide" you can simply say nothing or repeat yourself. He is trying to bully you into giving him voluntary permission to search. If he didn't need your permission he would just order you aside and commense with the search LOL

I don't give consent to strangers to search my car, and I especially don't give consent to government employees to searech my car. Period.

IMO unless you summon the police yourself or are in the need of immediate safety assistance, the police are YOUR ENEMY. I will treat him respectfully but he will know from jump I am anoyed by his presence and I am interested in perserving my rights and leaving as soon as I am legally allowed to do so.

They are experts at making threats (that they often either can't or won't back up....and even if they can...your punnishment is not going to be WORSE for ASSERTING YOUR RIGHTS. They make threats to scare you into voluntarilly giving up your rights. All those cops shows where you see them say "then you wouldn't mind me searching your car" or "so you shouldn't have a problem with me searching your car"

The response is "I abolutely have a problem with it and refuse consent for you to search my car". " I never consent to searches"

When he tells me he wantst to pat me down I ask is that an order or a request. Same thing when he says "what's that"(as he's feeling something in my pocket) or "can i see that" My response is it is not a weapon. Assert you havfe NO WEAPONS on you clearly before being patted down.

When he asks whats in your pockets or says let me see.... say "is that an order or a request"

[bkholdem]

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Or if a dog hits on a drug smell and that allows them to search.

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Most K-9 Officers take the time to train their dogs to "hit" on command, if they feel it is needed. This is why I do not believe in drug dogs. I got stopped with a friend not long ago, and we happened to be coming from a firing range, so we had, amongst several guns, a video camera. He pulled the same routine "If you don't allow me to search, I'm calling for a dog" "Call for a dog" My friend video tapes the officer+dog walking around the vehicle, sees the officer tap on the vehicle, and the dog immediately hits. He then states "My dog hit, we're going to have to search the vehicle."

I didn't see it, as I'm cuffed, but my friend goes "We're leaving now. If you don't allow us to leave, I can assure you you'll lose your jobs." Cop goes "Yea, whatever" Then my friend goes "Check out what I've been up to" and shows him the video of the officer tapping.

Needless to say, we left, went directly to the sheriffs office, and turned over the tape.

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Good for you guys. I think it would be a good idea if everyone carried a can corder with them at all times. Police could never get away with forcing ppl to stop videotaping if there are like 30ppl videotaping (when they are using the excuse you are interfering and you are not).

I happen to present myself as quite a square and drive the car of a square so I very very infrequently run into an issue with the police. However in my youth it was a very different story.

Just because of this post I'm going to start carrying my cam corder with me in my car. Thank you. I just might save a life by getting some insane sadistic cop fired before he kills someone.

[BCPVP]

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"There's been a rash of arrests of late for videotaping police, and it's a disturbing development."

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Wow. [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]