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Old 09-06-2007, 07:42 AM
vhawk01 vhawk01 is offline
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Default Re: changed my mind about michael vick, slap on wrist only

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That's not the point of the question, and I hope you had the intelligence to realize that. The point of my question is simple. Do you value your life over the life of a dog.

You may weasel around the issue anyway you sit fit, but at the end of the day, If a burglar broke into your home, and told you he's either going to kill you, or the dog, you'd tell him to shoot the dog.

Furthermore, I take particular offense to this line:

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I would prefer the doctors be trained on people like you instead of on dogs. I would trade your life and the lives of thousands like you if it would save my dog.

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First point: You don't know me. I care deeply about dogs, but I'm not some asinine emo who can't handle life in the real world. Dogs die. People die. I'd prefer dogs dying to people dying.

Humans are animals you see, and recent changes due mostly to P.C politics have made the human species the only species walking the planet to feel that the survival of some lower form of animal was more paramount than their own.

I own two dogs, they mean the world to me, but that doesn't mean I'm going to go down PeTA road and sell my soul. Michael Vick needlessly slaughtered animals. His punishment should be being handcuffed and thrown into a ring with 3 or 4 raging pitbulls.

What happened here was for the purpose of medical training.

BTW: I wouldn't put too much thought into the OP's article, I see little more than a big glass of blue kool-aid.

Furthermore, I hardly consider this Priscilla Feral an unbiased opinion, just the rantings of a lunatic who believes that her life is more important than an animals, but no one else's is.

Did it not strike anyone as odd as to why on April 2, 2007, a writer for the NY Post would decide to write an article about events that transpired concerning the job of a Republican Presidential hopeful's wife, beginning 32 years prior to publication and ending 28 years prior to publication? I don't know about you, but 30 year old news isn't news to me.



Me, I'm going to take this opportunity to call BS on this whole story.

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You can keep saying over and over again that what happened here was for the purposes of medical training all you want, but that doesn't make it true. What happened here was for the purpose of selling vacuum cleaners or eye makeup or medical supplies, not for medical training. I personally don't care, since I've got nothing against making a little money, but the fact that you keep trying to paint it as "medical training" is exactly the point the OP is trying to make. Why can't you just admit these people stapled some dogs and then killed them when they were done with them, to make a profit? Oh, its because if you admit it was "to make a profit" then thats not that far from "to gamble on" or "to watch for fun" and all of a sudden we start losing the moral high ground.
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  #42  
Old 09-06-2007, 07:44 AM
vhawk01 vhawk01 is offline
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Join Date: Feb 2006
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Default Re: changed my mind about michael vick, slap on wrist only

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think michael vick should get slap on wrist at most.

why?

http://www.nypost.com/seven/04022007/new..._dan_mangan.htm

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April 2, 2007 -- Judith Giuliani once demonstrated surgical products for a controversial medical-supply company that used dogs - which were later killed - in operations whose only purpose was to sell equipment to doctors, The Post has learned.

"It was a horribly cruel, outrageous program," Friends of Animals President Priscilla Feral said about the demonstrations of medical staplers on dogs conducted by U.S. Surgical Corp. employees during Giuliani's tenure there in the late 1970s.

Feral said U.S. Surgical's demonstrations on hundreds of dogs each year through the 1970s, 1980s and 1990s were done to boost sales, not for medical re search or testing.

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alternately I think these ceo's and workers should do jail time.
in the interest of the fair application of the law.

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Dude, rent "Something the lord made." Did you realize that open heart surgery would not have been possible without killing (testing the procedure) on tons of dogs first? Did you not realize that this was common practice for various types of surgical procedures?

Torturing dogs (ie strangling them) is not the same as anesthetizing them and testing on them. They were in no pain and were probably treated very humanely.

+EV

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Yeah, I've seen that movie. Also, Transformers was pretty sweet, you should check it out. Both have about equal relationship to the OP or the points being discussed.
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  #43  
Old 09-06-2007, 07:45 AM
vhawk01 vhawk01 is offline
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Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: GHoFFANMWYD
Posts: 9,098
Default Re: changed my mind about michael vick, slap on wrist only

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Torturing dogs (ie strangling them) is not the same as anesthetizing them and testing on them.

[/ QUOTE ]

wtf, are only idiots posting in this thread?

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U.S. Surgical's demonstrations on hundreds of dogs each year through the 1970s, 1980s and 1990s were done to boost sales, not for medical re search or testing.

[/ QUOTE ]

an analogy would be for a gun shop to demonstrate their guns on dogs (shoot dogs) for customers to demonstrate the effectiveness and stopping power of their product.

maybe you posted in the wrong thread or someting.

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Your heart surgeon tells you "I've got some new staples to put your arteries back together. I've seen the video and the sales rep assures me they are effective and easy to use. I've never actually used them on real arteries with blood and everything, but it shouldn't be a problem. See you in surgery."

[/ QUOTE ]

A guy walks into your office, and he says, "Hey, check this out, its a lot better than what you use right now, look!" and then proceeds to kill a bunch of dogs to demonstrate his product for you. You politely decline. Oops!
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  #44  
Old 09-06-2007, 11:40 AM
FooSH FooSH is offline
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Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 187
Default Re: changed my mind about michael vick, slap on wrist only

All the people arguing if the dogs were killed for training or for profit are both right.

It's common practice for a someone working for the company, usually involved in the development, to join the surgeon on a few operations when offering a new surgical implant. They work together, in effect they both get training from the experience. If the surgeon feels comfortable with it and thinks it will benefit his or her patients then its sold, so it's a sales pitch as well.

For orthopaedic and minor surgery this is done on a live patients so the surgeon can easily switch back to the old product if needed without too much fuss. It's different with vascular cases, because they are cutting blood supplies to vital organs, every second counts so animal trials are necessary for each surgeon.

I hope this clears some stuff up. I've witness a few of these operations with orthopaedic stuff, never with dogs but I know it goes on.

I'm still not sure why they have to kill them afterword [img]/images/graemlins/frown.gif[/img]
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