Bankroll Definition and Recommendation for No-Limit Hold 'em

[El Diablo]

raptor,

He is completely 100% incorrect. You absolutely owe taxes on winnings, not withdrawals.

He gave this example: "If you fly to Spain, enter a tournament and win, take the winnings in chips of the casino there if that's an option and place those chips in a casino box in Spain, how is that different than what I'm saying?"

In that example, you absolutely owe taxes on the value of the win.

How likely you are to be caught committing tax fraud of this nature is a whole different question. Just hope nobody turns you in to the IRS after you suck out on them.

[llleisure]

[ QUOTE ]
raptor,

He is completely 100% incorrect. You absolutely owe taxes on winnings, not withdrawals.

He gave this example: "If you fly to Spain, enter a tournament and win, take the winnings in chips of the casino there if that's an option and place those chips in a casino box in Spain, how is that different than what I'm saying?"

In that example, you absolutely owe taxes on the value of the win.

How likely you are to be caught committing tax fraud of this nature is a whole different question. Just hope nobody turns you in to the IRS after you suck out on them.

[/ QUOTE ]

Like I said: Get a CPA and pay him, DO NOT take tax advice off the Internet.

And now, for some tax advice. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

If you buy a stock and it goes up but you don't sell it, you don't pay tax on the unrealized gain. That "gain" in a stock you never sold when it was up can turn into a loss just like a "win" of chips not cashed in can turn into a loss. 100% certain on the stock angle - first hand experience. How/when/why is an UNREALIZED gambling gain taxed? Is the treatment different if you file as "Professional Gambler" versus not? (Pretty sure answer here is yes but again, ask a professional, not me.)

The point about flying over seas and keeping the winnings in chips was that until the chips are cashed, that isn't a realized gain. I'm NOT saying you shouldn't pay taxes on winnings - if you get access to the money, via a debit card or however else, you owe taxes. But if the money remains in play and can wind up being a net loss, I *really* don't think you have to pay taxes. And that advice is worth exactly what it costs - nothing.

Ask a CPA you are referred to by someone you trust - pay the CPA a fair price for his advice (hundreds not thousands of dollars probably - the advice doesn't come as a % of the money you're asking about) and trust THAT advice.

The IRS web site has all this info if you care to go try and parse it yourself but for the money you're playing with, you really should get a good CPA that does this stuff all the time. Go search on the IRS web site for "gambling income" and "taxable income" and stuff like that if you want...

PS - I'm not just talking out my ass here. I've probably paid more in taxes than many HSNL pros. I've never cheated and always paid what I had to - if anything I probably didn't take as much advantage as many people do. My CPA (a family member) was way too damn honest - try and avoid that quality in your CPA if you can lol.

[JustPlayingSmart]

[ QUOTE ]
If you buy a stock and it goes up but you don't sell it, you don't pay tax on the unrealized gain. That "gain" in a stock you never sold when it was up can turn into a loss just like a "win" of chips not cashed in can turn into a loss. 100% certain on the stock angle - first hand experience. How/when/why is an UNREALIZED gambling gain taxed? Is the treatment different if you file as "Professional Gambler" versus not? (Pretty sure answer here is yes but again, ask a professional, not me.)

[/ QUOTE ]

You must see a difference in these things. In the case of a stock, say it went up $2,000,000. You may not have cash to pay the tax on that, so it makes sense that they carve out an exception for unrealized gains for stocks (and some other things too). In some cases, the stock may be tied up and not easy to sell without dropping the price significantly.

In the case of casino chips or online $, that is readily convertible to cash.

If you received a check from your employer, would you think that tax is not owed on it until you deposit/cash it? Obviously that is not true, and I think most would agree that poker winnings are closer to this than they are to unrealized stock gains.

[fsuplayer]

illeisure, plz stop posting incorrect tax info. there are lots of otherwise smart kids who are doing exactly what u said in your post, and it couldnt be more off.

gl if u get audited and havent paid taxes on your 300k bankroll. they will laugh at you if u tell them that you havent paid taxes on it bc you havent 'cashed it out' yet. then they will fine you thousands of dollars in penalties.

that info is very wrong.

[El Diablo]

ill,

Once you take the money off the table, it is no longer "in play" or "at risk."

Here is the appropriate analogy regarding the chips you put in the casino box or money in your poker account.

You have a stock. It goes up. You do not sell it. As you said, you do not pay taxes on how much it has gone up. BECAUSE UNTIL YOU SELL IT THE STOCK COULD GO DOWN AND YOU COULD NOT REALIZE THOSE GAINS. You now sell it and the proceeds go into your ETrade account. At that point, you owe taxes, even though you have not put it into your bank account yet.

Like Kenny Rogers said, you don't count your money or owe your taxes while you're sitting at the table. But you do as soon as you leave the table.

Your advice regarding gambling winnings is simply 100% wrong. There is no ambiguity in the IRS stance on this.

[fsuplayer]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
talk to a CPA familar with gambling winnings.

[/ QUOTE ]

funny thing about that.. they all say something different, and no one seems to be completely sure on the laws regarding internet gambling. oh well, for now ive been sticking with pay tax on what hits my bank account. holla

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah [censored] it. people seem to have different opinions on this, so why not choose what suits you best?

raptor, plz see a good accountant.

[PickyTooth]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hi Matt:

6-max has a substantially higher variance than full ring, and headsup is even higher than 6-max. (Of course, your edge is also higher in those games, but not sufficiently so to cancel out the effect of variance in my experience.)

You may want to be advocating different ceilings for each. While I think a full ring nit could get by with 20 buyins, I think a 6-max guy might want 35 and a HU specialist 50.

[/ QUOTE ]

mmm.. i disagree with some of this.. a HU specialist is also good at finding idiots to play HU where there is VERY little variance assuming they dont quit you. holla

[/ QUOTE ]

I think we can both agree that it's pretty rare you can get "idiots" that dont quit you.

[Boosted J]

last 4 days at 25/50 HU and 6 max I've swung -/+ $100k(20 buyins) each day at multiple day long sessions....conclusion=50 bare minimum if you plan on boooooosting for HU play at high stakes

[eso]

Hypothetical situation: you have x amount of money in your poker account that isn't cashed out yet. You pay tax on this money. Now when you cash it out, it never appears in your bank account because the online site you play at has suddenly gone bust (Or they are performing "security checks" on you). So you are out of pocket with losing this money, but also you lost even more through taxes. Doesn't seem fair does it. The fact that you don't receive your money implies that its not actually your money until you cash out, hence you shouldn't pay tax on it until you cash out.

[NHFunkii]

hypothetical situation:
you work at a 9-5 job for a couple weeks, and you get a paycheck. You take the paycheck to the bank and get it cashed, ka-ching! You walk back to your house when while walking through a dark alleyway you get mugged! Oh no, you lost your money! But you also have to pay taxes on it! Doesn't seem fair, does it? The fact that you don't keep your money means you shouldn't pay tax on it until you spend it.