Live 1/2 NL, 9 handed, min-raise in LP

[Albert Moulton]

Live 1/2 NL, 9 handed
100 max buy-in
$3 rake ($2 rake + $1 Jackpot)

SB $90
BB $175
UTG $250
UTG+1 $50
MP1 $150
MP2 $320
MP3 $150
HERO CO $100
Button $80

MP2 is TAG. He is a good, young player out with a couple of friends, "grinding."

Everybody else is some variant of loose passive. In general, they limp too much, raise too little, rarely reraise, and seem to take TPWK too far post flop. Some are a little better than others, but no one other than MP2 stands out.

Hero dealt 5 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Blinds = 1+2 (this will be raked if we see a flop)

2 folds
MP1 call $2
1 fold
MP3 call $2
HERO CO Raise to $4
...

Anybody ever try this?

Any thoughts given the nature of the game I'm in?

I will often do this on the button with any playable hand, in CO and HG with mid-sized suited connectors and small pairs, or even in MP or EP with small to mid-sized pairs.

I'm interested in what others think before I try to explain what I'm thinking.

Thanks.

[los_toros]

You're implied odds are usually always there anyway so I don't really see any need to put in more money at this point. It's not like it really give you control over the hand in anyway.

[Keys Myaths]

So you can get a fourth card if you don't hit your set?

Meh. Not worth it for the price you're paying.

[Albert Moulton]

If I limp, and button and SB+BB come along, there are 6 players to the flop with a $9 pot ($12-rake).
Now, if I flop a set, I win $9 for risking $2 if no one bets or calls my bet (4.5:1).

But the real problem here is that it is hard to get a big pot by the turn with a set when the players feel like $9 isn't much to fight over. Maybe I can bet $9, get a caller with a draw or 2nd pair. But after that, a big bet probably causes villain to fold his second pair or draw.

On the other hand, if I min-raise, no one is folding, most likely no one is reraising because they're generally passive and only BTN/SB/BB are still to act, and the pot is now $21 with 6 players to the flop.
Now, if I flop a set, I win $21 for risking $4 (5.25:1) if no one bets or calls my bet.

The real bonus is that if I bet $20 and get a caller, the pot is big enough for a push on the turn and all kinds of draws and TPWK hands end up calling.

Making a small pot-builder in this loose-passive game, especially when the rake is the size of the BB+SB, means that I can win a much bigger pot when I hit than I can win when I only limp and hit.

Nobody uses this regularly?

Oh, and I don't make a real raise to $12, for example, because I'll get two callers, and at least one won't fold to a cb. So, unless I hit my set, it is usually spew in this game to raise after a couple of limpers with small pairs or suited connectors.

[CalledDownLight]

I've seen this done and I really don't like it. It seems like its always a pocket pair looking for a set and trying to build a pot that they can build further on the flop. It seems like this is -EV except when you also believe you can take the pot down later without a set, which this doesn't sound like a game to try that in. Also, you have 50 BB so its not going to be that tough to get them in the pot if you hit your set and anyone else flops much of a hand. This can't be the most +EV in this situaion.

[Jurrr]

I do this rarely at NL10 in position at a table which respects my cbets (!) and has deepstacks (90BB+) but am not sure it is EV+.

I don't minraise though, I raise something like 3.5BB when there are many limpers - enough only to drive some of them out. I really hope that my cbet will take the pot and if it doesn't, I will see all 5 cards usually (flop immediately, turn after my cbet is called, river when it is checked around on the turn) or bet again if scare card hits on the turn.

The nice thing about minraising at NL10 though (not sure about elsewhere) is that people may put you on AA as a lot of donks play AA that way. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

At NL100 I don't think I'd do it though. People have got to notice it after one showdown when you hit your set and then it's and excellent read on you.

[ThinkQuick]

I'm not sure I'd like to play in a 1/2NL game that has a 100Max buy in

[Albert Moulton]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not sure I'd like to play in a 1/2NL game that has a 100Max buy in

[/ QUOTE ]

Live at the local casinos in San Digo, this kind of game is pretty common. This particular game is at Sycuan.

I really think seeding the pot to make it 20 or more at the flop 10 makes it a lot easier to win a very large pot if you flop a strong hand. People who limp/called in MP with marginal starting hands and $75 stacks who flop something like TPWK are more willing to get it all in when there is a $21 pot than when there is a $9 pot. They bet $20, get raised, and say, "I'm pot committed, I call..."

I actually thought about this approach after reading a section in NLHE TAP in which they talk about min-raising as not being as bad as many "experts" might think under the right game conditions. I think they were talking about deeper stacks, though, than a 100BB game, in an effort to build up a pot so that if you get a good flop you can have a good shot at stacking somebody.