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  #21  
Old 03-20-2007, 02:55 PM
Turn Prophet Turn Prophet is offline
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Default Re: WSOP blind structure is only marginally better.

Even though the blinds start twice as high, it's still advantageous to have 20k chips instead of 10k for the later levels, because although you cut out one level of play, for every other level, you have effectively put twice as many chips in play, meaning that M's will be a lot higher with blinds of 200/400, 300/600, etc than they would be if you only got 10k in chips. More play in the middle levels is a very good thing IMO.

Is this is a stage toward raising the buy-in to $20k? Eh, I don't think so. If anything it's probably just following the trend of the Bellagio structures and other similar WPT structures that have been recently adopted. All in all I think it's a very positive move... not as good as the 2007 Borgata Winter Open structure (30 chips, 25/50 starting blinds, wow), but definitely better the old structure and realistic given the expected size of the field this year.
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  #22  
Old 03-20-2007, 03:31 PM
Alan Goehring Alan Goehring is offline
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Posts: 109
Default Re: WSOP blind structure is only marginally better.

[ QUOTE ]
Even though the blinds start twice as high, it's still advantageous to have 20k chips instead of 10k for the later levels, because although you cut out one level of play, for every other level, you have effectively put twice as many chips in play, meaning that M's will be a lot higher with blinds of 200/400, 300/600, etc than they would be if you only got 10k in chips. More play in the middle levels is a very good thing IMO.

[/ QUOTE ]

Everything in this post is wrong. More than one level was eliminated, there will not be more play in the middle levels, M's will not be higher (e.g. 2007 level #5 of 300/600 will have the same M as 2006 level #5 of 150/300).

I am using the 2007 $10k event structure posted on the WSOP website; it is basically the same as 2006 except everything is effectively doubled (level 1 x 2, level 2 x 2.....level 19 x 2, level 20 x 2, etc. etc. etc.).

The WPT events typically improved slightly when they went to 20k SC because they implemented (structured) things differently than the WSOP. The WPT events increased the number of levels (e.g. BB=SC) and had the BB repeat (i.e. first ante level) at a greater chip depth, while the WSOP has not changed the number of levels (or the ratio of the various levels, etc).
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  #23  
Old 03-20-2007, 03:56 PM
rageotones rageotones is offline
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Default Re: WSOP blind structure is only marginally better.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Even though the blinds start twice as high, it's still advantageous to have 20k chips instead of 10k for the later levels, because although you cut out one level of play, for every other level, you have effectively put twice as many chips in play, meaning that M's will be a lot higher with blinds of 200/400, 300/600, etc than they would be if you only got 10k in chips. More play in the middle levels is a very good thing IMO.

[/ QUOTE ]

Everything in this post is wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]

owned
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  #24  
Old 03-20-2007, 04:32 PM
JustASpectator JustASpectator is offline
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 100
Default Re: WSOP blind structure is only marginally better.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Even though the blinds start twice as high, it's still advantageous to have 20k chips instead of 10k for the later levels, because although you cut out one level of play, for every other level, you have effectively put twice as many chips in play, meaning that M's will be a lot higher with blinds of 200/400, 300/600, etc than they would be if you only got 10k in chips. More play in the middle levels is a very good thing IMO.

[/ QUOTE ]

Everything in this post is wrong. More than one level was eliminated, there will not be more play in the middle levels, M's will not be higher (e.g. 2007 level #5 of 300/600 will have the same M as 2006 level #5 of 150/300).

I am using the 2007 $10k event structure posted on the WSOP website; it is basically the same as 2006 except everything is effectively doubled (level 1 x 2, level 2 x 2.....level 19 x 2, level 20 x 2, etc. etc. etc.).

The WPT events typically improved slightly when they went to 20k SC because they implemented (structured) things differently than the WSOP. The WPT events increased the number of levels (e.g. BB=SC) and had the BB repeat (i.e. first ante level) at a greater chip depth, while the WSOP has not changed the number of levels (or the ratio of the various levels, etc).

[/ QUOTE ]

Cost per round in 2006 (41 levels, assuming 9 handed tables):
75
150
300
525
675
1050
1200
1575
2100
3300
3600
4200
5700
6300
8100
10500
12000
18000
21000
24000
36000
42000
57000
72000
90000
105000
120000
180000
210000
240000
360000
420000
570000
720000
900000
1050000
1200000
1800000
2100000
2400000
3600000

Cost per round in 2007 (first 41 levels, assuming 9 handed tables):
150
300
600
1050
1575
2100
2400
3600
4200
5700
6300
8100
10500
12000
18000
21000
24000
36000
42000
57000
63000
81000
105000
120000
180000
210000
315000
420000
570000
630000
810000
1050000
1200000
1575000
2100000
2850000
3600000
4200000
5700000
7200000
8100000


Cost per round in 2007 divided by cost per round in 2006 for first 41 levels (2 means round cost was exactly doubled, < 2 means round is less costly in 2007 vs 2006, > 2 means round is more costly in 2007 vs 2006):
2
2
2
2
2.333333333
2
2
2.285714286
2
1.727272727
1.75
1.928571429
1.842105263
1.904761905
2.222222222
2
2
2
2
2.375
1.75
1.928571429
1.842105263
1.666666667
2
2
2.625
2.333333333
2.714285714
2.625
2.25
2.5
2.105263158
2.1875
2.333333333
2.714285714
3
2.333333333
2.714285714
3
2.25



Looks slightly better in some of the early-mid stages, and worse in the late stages.
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  #25  
Old 03-20-2007, 06:13 PM
Alan Goehring Alan Goehring is offline
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Posts: 109
Default Re: WSOP blind structure is only marginally better.

I used the term "effectively" doubled and not "exactly" doubled as there are some very small differences. For example, 150/300/25 becomes 300/600/75 vs. 300/600/50, and 800/1600/200 becomes 1500/3000/400 vs. 1600/3200/400. The differences are so small that it doesn't make sense to spend a lot of time splitting hairs.

The biggest differnce is that level 27 (equiv.) has been removed in 2007 (i.e. oddly there is no 50k/100k, assuming no typo). So yes, 2007 has one less level, which will only be felt after 99.5% of the field is eliminated. This SMALL difference is greater than the rounding differences at various levels.
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  #26  
Old 03-20-2007, 06:28 PM
JustASpectator JustASpectator is offline
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 100
Default Re: WSOP blind structure is only marginally better.

[ QUOTE ]
I used the term "effectively" doubled and not "exactly" doubled as there are some very small differences. For example, 150/300/25 becomes 300/600/75 vs. 300/600/50, and 800/1600/200 becomes 1500/3000/400 vs. 1600/3200/400. The differences are so small that it doesn't make sense to spend a lot of time splitting hairs.

The biggest differnce is that level 27 (equiv.) has been removed in 2007 (i.e. oddly there is no 50k/100k, assuming no typo). So yes, 2007 has one less level, which will only be felt after 99.5% of the field is eliminated. This SMALL difference is greater than the rounding differences at various levels.

[/ QUOTE ]

Alan, the purpose of my post wasn't to nitpick your statement, but rather to back up what you had said about M's not being higher in 2007 than 2006.

2006 structure: http://www.worldseriesofpoker.com/st...t/Event39.html

2007 structure: http://dps.twiihosting.net/wsop/doc/...oc_591_133.pdf
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  #27  
Old 03-20-2007, 07:25 PM
Turn Prophet Turn Prophet is offline
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Davis CA, USA
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Default Re: WSOP blind structure is only marginally better.

LoL, I got pwned by Alan Goehring; there's a story... didn't realize they'd cut out other levels as well. In that case I withdraw my ignorant statement.
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  #28  
Old 03-20-2007, 09:36 PM
Kimbell175113 Kimbell175113 is offline
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Posts: 2,464
Default Re: WSOP blind structure is only marginally better.

Anyone think one reason for the change is to keep total chip count high while entries will obv be down? Meaning that the spectators (I'm mostly talking about tv here) are not impressed with million-dollar stacks anymore, and might lose some interest if there aren't as many millions at the final table? That was my first thought, at least.
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  #29  
Old 03-21-2007, 10:37 AM
krupa- krupa- is offline
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 493
Default Re: WSOP blind structure is only marginally better.

So, if you had to bet on the stack sizes at the final table in relation to the blinds being deeper than last year, would you?

Meaning how many BB deep will the avg stack be as opposed to how deep it was last year.
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  #30  
Old 03-22-2007, 04:23 AM
lsuplayer lsuplayer is offline
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Location: Bankroll = Tonz!!
Posts: 208
Default Re: WSOP blind structure is only marginally better.

I don't think that's what he's trying to say, but it doesn't really matter. Assuming that the ME attendance declines greatly, as anticipated, the FT will still have the 80-90 mill. on the table....Hell, after chip-ups, who knows how high that number could get. That's assuming field debility to 4,200 entrants, though some believe it will stay much larger than that.
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