2nd Chance: Need A Calling Range v Shaun

[KneeCo]

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i didnt even see this be4, calling with a 2 is maybe marginally bad to breakeven to possibly barely plus ev, i really dont think shaun is shoving any 2 here.[...] but u really cant be faulted much for calling there.

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I don't think it's even that marginal.

Like we said earlier, he needs 40%.

If Shaun is pushing Ax/22+/broadway than it marginally +EV.

And even if he isn't pushing ATC his range is at least a little wider than that (you for instance included 78s+ which I think is fair, and I don't think he's folding K9 or some other paint cards w/ mid kickers).

I would say folding A2 here would have been pretty bad.

[Todd Terry]

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I'm still expecting a Ray equity analysis to make me look like an idiot [img]/images/graemlins/blush.gif[/img]

I had a2o and called and im still sort of unsure about it

[/ QUOTE ] i didnt even see this be4, calling with a 2 is maybe marginally bad to breakeven to possibly barely plus ev, i really dont think shaun is shoving any 2 here. maybe im nitty, and also it could be that i havent played much with shaun deeb so im not exactly sure what his specific range in this spot is. if his shove was 2 blinds more it would be a snap fold imo because ud be down to 12-13 blinds if u lost which wont even be re raise f/e really. so this makes me a little more inclined to gamble since we have 15 bb's if we call and lose but id prob still fold a 2 call with like a 5 s and a 6 o maybe thinking about it again, but u really cant be faulted much for calling there.

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everyone seems to ignore me in this thread or think im retarded or something. ive played with shaun a lot and he is good. a good MTT player is shoving a v wide range here. if BB was also expert MTT player and calling perfectly, then shaun should tighten his range a bit. thus the BB shud tighten his range some etc etc until an equilibrium is reached where shaun can shove a certain range regardless of how well BB is calling. i don't know what that range is exactly, but i bet it is fairly wide.

edit: what i'm trying to say here is yes shaun's range is gunna be tighter cuz adam is in BB, but not a whole lot tighter than if it was a random. it's still gunna be pretty wide.

but that aside A2o isn't even up for debate.

from an earlier post of mine in this thread

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Adam it's basically impossible your call was wrong. It would be breakeven if shaun was shoving 66+,A5s+,K9s+,Q9s+,JTs,ATo+,KTo+,QTo+

I'd bet my life savings that shaun is pushing much wider than that.


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I agreed completely with all of djk's posts here, I'll post my agreement so he knows there's someone out there reading his posts and agreeing with him. I would not fold A2o here to anybody other than someone who: (1) is an absolute nit; and (2) doesn't know how to play tournaments at all.

[Bakes]

jesus why is this thread so long. honestly its not that hard to figure out

[djk123]

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jesus why is this thread so long. honestly its not that hard to figure out

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people don't listen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[gobboboy]

55+, A7+, K8+, QJ.

If you lose your stack takes a big blow and you lose the ability to do multiple things.

Compounded with the fact that if Shaun really is shoving that wide of a range you could probably find a much better spot in the next orbit or two, but I don't really think he's shoving as wide a range as you guys are thinking. In a vacuum I think it's fine but this has everything to do with game dynamic and it's hard to account for that.

I'm going with feel and that's the range I get from feel.

[djk123]

cmon gobbo that range is absurdly tight. i already showed how A2o is a must call. you can't really be considering folding a a pair here. and that waiting for a better spot is nonsense. more than likely he'll either be out or doubled up by then. if you are folding A2o here, you are missing out on significant value and probably missing out on similar spots consistently. i may have leaks in other areas, but this type of spot is one that i think i am very good at.

[KneeCo]

Gobbo,

Ignoring for a minute that your range is kind of contradictory (I can't think of a range for Shaun where I'd call with K9 and fold 44) I'm sure it's just ball park.

But are you saying that you recognize that its +EV but its too high variance? So it's like a reverse blocks thing? Or are you just trying to tilt djk + bakes?

[shaundeeb]

I agree with gobbo but add a hand or two to each of the ones he entioned.

Also history adam may not have noticed/thought about

A, I had been really tight for 5 orbits of having 8-12bbs

B, I just shoved OTB without showing my hand

C, he's a horse of mine so I am more likely to play tighter vs him in the bb

[AcTiOnJaCsOn]

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55+, A7+, K8+, QJ.

If you lose your stack takes a big blow and you lose the ability to do multiple things.

Compounded with the fact that if Shaun really is shoving that wide of a range you could probably find a much better spot in the next orbit or two, but I don't really think he's shoving as wide a range as you guys are thinking. In a vacuum I think it's fine but this has everything to do with game dynamic and it's hard to account for that.

I'm going with feel and that's the range I get from feel.

[/ QUOTE ] agreed gobbo this range is pretty similar to mine

[timex]

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55+, A7+, K8+, QJ.

If you lose your stack takes a big blow and you lose the ability to do multiple things.

Compounded with the fact that if Shaun really is shoving that wide of a range you could probably find a much better spot in the next orbit or two, but I don't really think he's shoving as wide a range as you guys are thinking. In a vacuum I think it's fine but this has everything to do with game dynamic and it's hard to account for that.

I'm going with feel and that's the range I get from feel.

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I once heard from someone that "less than 1% of 1% of players can fold when they are a 55/45", I am pretty sure that folding 44 here at these odds is a bigger mistake.