Cardroom Management Query

[Michael Davis]

Guys,

I truly don't know much about cardroom management. I think many poker players believe they know everything about how a room should be run but in reality most have no clue.

So, two questions from tonight. A notorious area fish who normally frequents other casinos in the area decides to come down to my home casino. He wants to play stud, so me and another guy oblige and agree to play him in 20-40 stud. The floor refuses because of fears that spreading a stud game might jeopardize their stud hi-lo game going, which is currently full, has four names on the board, and a handful of props to fill in if the game gets short. Instead, the floor spreads this game only at 40-80.

The game does go at 40-80 when the big fish busts after a half hour or so. At this point, myself, the other guy in the game, and a third player request that game be changed to a $6-$12 mix and the floor just flat out refuses, saying they went through all the trouble to get the stud game going and then it just broke after 45 minutes.

Now, my tone may imply criticism, but I am genuinely looking for answers and even more general information about the opening or non-opening of games and what factors into floor decisions.

Thanks.

-Michael

[SNOWBALL]

Michael,

he might have just been hustling you for a tip. I strongly doubt that "floorman" is a performance based occupation.
In other words: What makes you think he cares how the cardroom does?

[afish]

It is bad business to start strange games that could cannibalize regular games. That is probably what was going on here. Also, why would the floor start a strange game when there are only three players, and the game could break at any moment?

[esch]

Aside from the risk of cannibalizing other games (which I see as very valid)...

If there are available trained dealers, space, and players, the room should be willing to accommodate reasonable requests for a game. They already opened the table, so how much more work would be required?

I'd say there's a good chance that there's more to the story (either known or unknown) though.

[AngusThermopyle]

Guy starts a short handed and short lived game so you can gut the fish.

Not enough?

How much did you and the others take off the fish compared to how much the house/dealers made?

Casino not there just for you to make money.

[youtalkfunny]

When a game starts, and quickly breaks, it *is* bad for business.

When a game breaks, the players leave;
If you don't start that game, the players on the list will hang around all day long.

I've seen it 100 times. People on the list wait two hours for a seat. People from a broken game don't wait two seconds, they split.

That's why floormen are reluctant to start games that are sure to break quickly.

[esch]

FWIW, I understand the general reluctance to start new games, but it seems in this case, I think the floor could have made an exception due to the committed players willing to play short and that a table was all ready to go.

The fact that the original fish ran out of money isn't really anybody's fault. It would be different if one player changed their mind and left.

Showing some appreciation to the floor the first time might have been helpful. Especially since it worked out so well for the OP. You need to overcome the existing negative factors to get a new risky game going.

[MitchL]

[ QUOTE ]

Guy starts a short handed and short lived game so you can gut the fish.

Not enough?

How much did you and the others take off the fish compared to how much the house/dealers made?

Casino not there just for you to make money.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is stupid. They just want to switch the game and limit. If the floorman was trying to start a different full game then I could understand, but otherwise the OPs game just breaks and there is 1 less raked game. I understand that they will only be dropping a dollar, but the floorman needs to have a better reason than I dont feel like it, or its too much work I have already done enough for you.

[Al_Capone_Junior]

Well there is some good reason not to spread games that are too close in limit to other established games. I don't know the room, but if spreading 20-40 stud would jeapordize the 20-40 stud H/L game, then it makes sense. Many cardrooms utterly fail to comprehend the need to separate the limits. The prime example is mgm with their 4-8 half kill limit hold'em game. They had 6-12 briefly, but as soon as they started spreading 4-8 half kill the 6-12 disappeared. When given a choice that's very close in stakes, players tend to go with the smaller limit. Your situation is similar in that players would probably choose the "less complicated" game at the same stakes.

Their refusal to spread the mixed game when there is a table full of players ready to go seems ridiculous, and the reason they gave even more so. Seems someone has taken the breaking of the stud game personally, like their time was wasted and now they're spiteful over it. Hey, you gotta be there for eight hours, it doesn't really matter. So you started a game and it broke quick, big friggin' hairy deal. Move on and start another one. I don't know the situation, but spreading a mixed game at such small stakes is unlikely to jeapordize any existing games.

From your post it seems the management has lost touch with the reason they are there in the first place. The name of the game is service. The floorperson's job description is to keep the games going and keep the customers happy. Starting or breaking games is just something you might have to do in order to perform your job of keeping the customers happy.

Al

[Michael Davis]

Thanks for the responses guys.

I definitely see that older games need to be protected. I am uncertain where the balance in this and starting new games lies, especially for a room potentially without replacement players.

I guess a lot of this just depends upon the reads of individual floorpersons most of whom, unfortunately, aren't very competent.

Not sure what I think of this situation but I do understand that often what the players want just can't happen.

Also, I think Snowball is right.

-Michael