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#12
10-09-2007, 12:07 PM
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Re: Unorthodox
[ QUOTE ]
I have a question, the turn is 3 handed, the flop was draw heavy and 9 high, do you really expect one of these guys to fold a pair here at any point of the hand ? Do you think they both have a draw ? [/ QUOTE ] My original post was something like "someone has a pair that nobody is folding" but I reread the action and decided that it's quite possible nobody has a pair. I still don't like it but I don't hate it as much as I did at first. 
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#14
10-09-2007, 01:44 PM
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Re: Unorthodox
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] I have a question, the turn is 3 handed, the flop was draw heavy and 9 high, do you really expect one of these guys to fold a pair here at any point of the hand ? Do you think they both have a draw ? [/ QUOTE ] My original post was something like "someone has a pair that nobody is folding" but I reread the action and decided that it's quite possible nobody has a pair. I still don't like it but I don't hate it as much as I did at first. [/ QUOTE ] 3 bet preflop 4 way, 3 bet on the flop, one of them cold calling 2 knowing it could be a total of 4 and none of them has a pair a fair amount of the time ? If it ever goes HU nobody is folding AQ/AK imo with the flush on board unless they give a lot of respect to schneids. I don't like it w/e they had
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#15
10-09-2007, 02:01 PM
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Re: Unorthodox
I love the flop raise but I slightly dislike the initial flop bet and I'm not sure about the turn bet. I think you almost never take the pot down on the turn and your opponents almost always have a pair or flush draw. I think I would prefer checking turn expecting it to get checked through. If it doesn't I'm calling down as ugly as it is. The pot is just too large to fold when they could still both have flush draws and you would expect to have at least 4 outs even if one of them has a pair. I'm just giving up on a club river.
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#17
10-09-2007, 03:58 PM
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Re: Unorthodox
Flop bet is necessary because it him the info that the two behind him have no pair (almsot all the time). So, only thing to worry about is the SB. Flop 3 bet can perhaps clean up a couple ace outs.
Turn and river bets are required IMO. Of course a fold to a turn rasie. Seems reasonable based on hand ranges here since seems unlikely for SB to have a 4.
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#18
10-09-2007, 04:26 PM
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Re: Unorthodox
[ QUOTE ]
Flop bet is necessary [/ QUOTE ] Disagree here, the flop bet is really the only questionable play. I'm kind of mixed on it myself, but in as being necessary every time in this spot too many times you will end up building a huge pot with a mediocre hand. [ QUOTE ] Turn and river bets are required IMO [/ QUOTE ] Turn is, but I think a river bet is pretty bad. If somebody has made it to the river with a pair they aren't folding.
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#20
10-09-2007, 08:31 PM
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Re: Unorthodox
[ QUOTE ]
Flop bet is necessary because it him the info that the two behind him have no pair (almsot all the time). So, only thing to worry about is the SB. Flop 3 bet can perhaps clean up a couple ace outs. Turn and river bets are required IMO. Of course a fold to a turn rasie. Seems reasonable based on hand ranges here since seems unlikely for SB to have a 4. [/ QUOTE ] I agree that betting the flop is necessary, and the 3bet is usually a good idea, provided you fire out on a non-club turn. The problem is that if you get raised, you've gotta pay off since you made the pot so damned huge. You're getting the price to hit an A or Q, even though these outs are tainted. FWIW, I would probably jam it in many spots like schneids did, but there are places where AQ is just gonna be in trouble. This is a much better play with AK.
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