please move to microlimit ?

[donger]

How much difference do you think being in the CO makes for interpreting ASB for a typical player? I know that in a typical game I'm only raising A8o from the CO but opening any A from the button, etc, etc.

[Victor]

do you know dave fromm?

[rafiki]

ya I hate the idea of calling in this spot. I guess I have to play tighter in this spot then I currently am.

[MAxx]

The difference btwn my CO opening range and Button opening range of possible hands is only 4%. This gap does not mean much in practice. While my standards on the button are 4% sleazier, I will have less actual opportunities to steal from the button. The reason for this is that when I am on the button, the CO will beat me to the steal punch often enough so that I actually will have more steal attempts from the CO than while on the Button.

Therefore, I think taking the ASB in total and using that as an estimate of the CO steal range is a conservative estimate of his range. Perhaps it is too conservative, if anything.



Not that it is relevent, but obvioulsy this also means that I will be three betting from the button more often than anyother position. My pfr from the button is higher than anywhere else, but it is not the highest as the opener.

[JacksonTens]

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I think 2p2 dogma is usually to raise or fold in this situation.



[/ QUOTE ]

lol at 2+2 'dogma'! That raise or fold line is old...

If LHE at 2+2 had a slogan thats what it would be...

[img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

JT

[Catt]

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I have a 25/20 type player in the cutoff of a 6max online game.

. . .

His range is 22-AA, any broadway of any kind, most aces, probably suited connectors as low as 56s and one gappers as low as 97s.

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Coupla thoughts:

1 - If you have a reasonable degree of confidence in his pre-flop range, you can run some numbers to get a sense of the equity various hands hold against the range. Any sense on his post-flop play characteristics helps adjust your reactions to the hot-cold pre-flop equity.

2 - Absent some detailed info about his steal proclivities over a good sample, my initial reaction is that your hypotehtical range is ginormous for dudes whose overall stats are something like 25/20 (a lot depends on how much confidence we can place in these sorts of stats, obviously).

[Noir_Desir]

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It's easiest, IMO, if you look at his ASB. Plug that number into PokerStove and see how your proposed hands do against that range. Assuming you have equal postflop skills, combined with position, anything you have a slight equity edge is a valid candidate for 3 balling. I'd prefer a small edge at least......eventhough you have position, I'd like a little cushion to mitigate a little variance as well as take into consideration the blinds will wake up occasionally.

Against somebody with a 40 ASB in the CO, I will 3 ball KJo for example, but not KTo.

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You dont need an equity edge, the dead money from the blinds who have to fold almost all the time provides an overlay. IP i would 3ball anything that has 48% or better equity against his range.

[kiddo]

I think his went to showdown is important 2. If he goes to showdown a lot we shouldnt 3bet hands with zero showdownvalue. Also I think its important to remember what have happend the last 15 minutes. If 2 good players sit at same table u often hate to lose to much 2 that guy, specially not being outplayed. For example, if I 3bet a good player on my right 3 times in 5 min, the next time I do it I will have to go to showdown and be prepared that he is trying to move me of my hand.

*

Also, I think a 25/20 player is raising much less then indicated in this discussion, specially when he got a good player on the button. He will be tighter since he knows he will 3bet pretty often. I raise 20% and I more often raise K5o then T8s or any such drawing hands with no showdownvalue, specially if I know button will 3bet liberally and it will be HU, with me out of position.

[rafiki]

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2 - Absent some detailed info about his steal proclivities over a good sample, my initial reaction is that your hypotehtical range is ginormous for dudes whose overall stats are something like 25/20 (a lot depends on how much confidence we can place in these sorts of stats, obviously).

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right after I clicked submit I thought that also at first: That my range for him was too wide for a 25/20 person. However my range makes total sense in that that range only ever applies when all EP and MP people fold first. And when you take that into consideration, then it's perfectly logical. And it's very close to what I'd pop in that spot, and I'm a 21/17 guy. Of course my range changes drastically when I'm not opening the hand...

[Catt]

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2 - Absent some detailed info about his steal proclivities over a good sample, my initial reaction is that your hypotehtical range is ginormous for dudes whose overall stats are something like 25/20 (a lot depends on how much confidence we can place in these sorts of stats, obviously).

[/ QUOTE ]

right after I clicked submit I thought that also at first: That my range for him was too wide for a 25/20 person. However my range makes total sense in that that range only ever applies when all EP and MP people fold first. And when you take that into consideration, then it's perfectly logical. And it's very close to what I'd pop in that spot, and I'm a 21/17 guy. Of course my range changes drastically when I'm not opening the hand...

[/ QUOTE ]

OK - just strikes me as a large and strange CO opening range from the "average" 25/20 guy (especially if he appeared solid enough to be position and player-strength aware enough, as Kiddo commented). And frankly if I played for any length of time with anyone playing close to 21/17 over a decent sample and saw that person opening from the CO virtually any broadway, suited connectors < 10, and various suited one-gappers, I'd start to discount the validity of the stats against the player playing the account, the sobriety of the player in question, or my own sobriety; else I'd conclude something was seriously out of whack with someting that I couldn't yet identify.