Tiger Woods, just as an amateur, Casey Martin

[Boris]

Tiger Woods is obviously the best golfer ever. I'm not sure how it can be debated. The only argument would be who had a better career, Tiger or Nicklaus. If Tiger died today the answer is obviously Nicklaus.

[g-bebe]

Pure jokes.

[MoreWineII]

OK I GOT MY ASS KICKED BY A FAT PERSON IN A CART [censored] YOU

[offTopic]

[ QUOTE ]
Assume Tiger Woods never plays golf again, after winning his 6th consecutive USGA tourney, 3 Juniors, 3 US Am's. Where does he fall in golf history? Consider the question if he is struck by lightning and dies, or if he were to simply never win another tourney.


[/ QUOTE ]

If he were to die, be beset by career-ending injury, etc, he would be the greatest "what if?" in the game, would be revered and remembered fondly.

If he were to simply never win again, he would not be remembered fondly, people would be asking all sorts of questions about why the dropoff occurred, and he would not be remembered as fondly.

[ QUOTE ]

Do you think Casey Martin should have been allowed to ride in a cart? I say yes, I think of a poker analogy,, what if a blind man wanted to play poker? Would it be such a big deal for someone to tell him what his cards are, even though you're only supposed to have one player to a hand? Consider a scenario where Casey Martin was possibly the best player in the world. If I am the best, I want him out there, so I can play against him, so we can settle who is the best. I admit fatigue can set in, but its a very small part of the game, just like reading your cards in poker, even though sometimes, you may mistake a club for a diamond. I can certainly understand the other side of the argument, and I think Finchem handled it well by saying the PGA wanted Casey to play, but they wanted it to be on their terms.


[/ QUOTE ]

- The poker analogy doesn't fly with me.
- The government should not have gotten involved.

This topic was beaten into the ground on rec.sport.golf while it was actually happening, and the discussion became really annoying really quickly.

I particularly disliked the Chicken Little faction who wrote that an avalanche of cart-riding players with real and suspicious disabilities were going to inundate all levels of qualifying, and gain unfair advantage with their armada of golf carts. This group has fallen strangely silent in the intervening time.

ETA: I'm a 15-hdcp weekend player.

[andyfox]

I rank Tiger #2 all-time if his career ends tomorrow. He's 5th in wins, 2nd in majors won. It's close, but I believe his accomplishments put him past Snead and Hogan, but still shy of Nicklaus.

I would have allowed Martin to ride a cart. I don't care how a guy hits the shots, or arrives at the location to hit 'em, just how many he hits.

I was a golfer before back trouble.

[Toro]

Not that this adds or detracts from the debate but I actually played in a poker tourney with a blind man. They let him have his daughter sit next to him and look at his hole cards and she whispered in his ear what they were and then he told her whether to bet or fold.

It could have been argued that it was a disadvantage to all of us at that table since we got in considerably fewer hands than the average table since it took him so long on all of his actions.

But personally, I was glad to pay that small price to allow this man to be able to play despite his handicap.

[gusmahler]

1) All those saying Tiger is the second best ever is misreading the OP. It asks if he ONLY had an amateur career. E.g., he died in 1996. Obviously he wouldn't be considered 2nd best of all time had he died in 1996.

2) All those mentioning being tired after walking 18 holes, I thought it was a given that Martin, even with the cart, was more tired after 18 holes because of his disease.

[AngusThermopyle]

[ QUOTE ]


2) All those mentioning being tired after walking 18 holes, I thought it was a given that Martin, even with the cart, was more tired after 9 holes because of his disease.

[/ QUOTE ]

[BigSoonerFan]

[ QUOTE ]
Assume Tiger Woods never plays golf again, after winning his 6th consecutive USGA tourney, 3 Juniors, 3 US Am's. Where does he fall in golf history? Consider the question if he is struck by lightning and dies, or if he were to simply never win another tourney.

[/ QUOTE ]

As someone else said, if he were to die after winning his sixth USGA tourney as an amateur (before his 1997 Masters win and all that followed), he would be remembered along the same lines as Len Bias, a talented successful non-professional.

If Tiger were to die now, imho he would be considered the greatest golfer ever. He's on pace to pass the major record of Nicklaus, easily, and he has beaten Nicklaus' record in just about everything. Were he to continue playing and never win another major (doubtful), the argument may be different.

[ QUOTE ]
Do you think Casey Martin should have been allowed to ride in a cart? I say yes, I think of a poker analogy,, what if a blind man wanted to play poker? Would it be such a big deal for someone to tell him what his cards are, even though you're only supposed to have one player to a hand? Consider a scenario where Casey Martin was possibly the best player in the world. If I am the best, I want him out there, so I can play against him, so we can settle who is the best. I admit fatigue can set in, but its a very small part of the game, just like reading your cards in poker, even though sometimes, you may mistake a club for a diamond. I can certainly understand the other side of the argument, and I think Finchem handled it well by saying the PGA wanted Casey to play, but they wanted it to be on their terms.

Also, if you're not a golfer, please mention that when responding to this, as I think it is important.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, without a doubt he should be able to ride in a cart. Golf is a game of shot-making, not endurance. As for having a so-called advantage riding in a cart, Casey is more tired after playing 18 in a cart than anyone else is walking 18. The only argument you can make is that the PGA is allowed to make their own rules. My argument to that is that the PGA represents the identification of the best player in world. The best player in the world is the best shotmaker, not the one who has the most endurance. I've played in tournaments throughout the Midwest, including state golf association events, and I've ridden in many of them (just not USGA or college events). Not one of those tournaments have ever been declared NULL due to riding in carts. None of the trophies I have has an asterisk on them. As for keeping a level playing field (by not having carts), why don't we level the field for Casey by breaking the feet of every other competitor?

[andyfox]

Used to be a guy who played at Commerce who was blind. He would sit in the 1 seat and the dealer would whisper his cards to him and tell him the board.