Ring of Gyges

[Zygote]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Ah! Plato and one of my favorite books. One of the great questions. If we can guarantee getting away with it is there any reason why we shouldn't do it.

My answer is that there is a reason why we shouldn't do the things we believe to be wrong even if we can guarantee getting away with it.

I wonder where that answer comes from [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

chez

[/ QUOTE ]

What if you believe it to be wrong to NOT molest little children?

[/ QUOTE ]
Then I should do it.

chez

[/ QUOTE ]

So do you believe there is a sort of a reflective symmetry to right and wrong?

As if we can replace the words with left and right?

The reason i ask is because to use the words right and wrong tacitly implies that something is absolutely right and something is abolutely and distinctly wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]
That's not correct, I'm not talking about absolute right and wrong I'm talking about beliefs.


What else could I possibly do? Are you suggesting I should consider the matter, decide what I believe is right and then do the opposite sometimes? How would I decide when to do the opposite?

chez

[/ QUOTE ]

Not that you should do the opposite.

As long as you believe that what you do and think as being "right" means no more than you believing it and, therefore, has no higher meaning.

[chezlaw]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Ah! Plato and one of my favorite books. One of the great questions. If we can guarantee getting away with it is there any reason why we shouldn't do it.

My answer is that there is a reason why we shouldn't do the things we believe to be wrong even if we can guarantee getting away with it.

I wonder where that answer comes from [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

chez

[/ QUOTE ]

What if you believe it to be wrong to NOT molest little children?

[/ QUOTE ]
Then I should do it.

chez

[/ QUOTE ]Chez, I don't believe this is correct. And I believe it's obviously so. The desire to moleste children is obviously a dyfunction. You are basical making the statement that we should use any medicine to fix any medical ailment, or at best you are saying that mental dysfuntions don't exist.

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm not making any such statement, honest.

Suppose I am mentally disfunctional in such a scenario. if I'm aware of it then that means I don't believe its right not to molest little kids. If I'm not aware of it then I can't take it into account in the decisions I make.

chez

[DougShrapnel]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Ah! Plato and one of my favorite books. One of the great questions. If we can guarantee getting away with it is there any reason why we shouldn't do it.

My answer is that there is a reason why we shouldn't do the things we believe to be wrong even if we can guarantee getting away with it.

I wonder where that answer comes from [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

chez

[/ QUOTE ]

What if you believe it to be wrong to NOT molest little children?

[/ QUOTE ]
Then I should do it.

chez

[/ QUOTE ]Chez, I don't believe this is correct. And I believe it's obviously so. The desire to moleste children is obviously a dyfunction. You are basical making the statement that we should use any medicine to fix any medical ailment, or at best you are saying that mental dysfuntions don't exist.

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm not making any such statement, honest.

Suppose I am mentally disfunctional in such a scenario. if I'm aware of it then that means I don't believe its right not to molest little kids. If I'm not aware of it then I can't take it into account in the decisions I make.

chez

[/ QUOTE ] It's an axis I type disorder codes v61.21 physical abuse of a child and v61.21 sexual abuse of a child. One should seek clinical attention in the same way that one should seek medical attention if they develop cancer.

[Nincompoop]

Are you serious? Mental disorders are ideologically conditioned abstract categories of behavior. Physical illness is concrete and scientifically verifiable. There is such a thing as perfect physical health... no such standard for mental health. Your claims are absurd.

[DougShrapnel]

[ QUOTE ]
Are you serious? Mental disorders are ideologically conditioned abstract categories of behavior. Physical illness is concrete and scientifically verifiable. There is such a thing as perfect physical health... no such standard for mental health. Your claims are absurd.

[/ QUOTE ]Perfect phsical health? What is the perfect phsical hieght, hip to waist ratio, skin color. Categorical modes of unhealthy behavior are well withen the grasp of scientific inquiry.

[chezlaw]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Ah! Plato and one of my favorite books. One of the great questions. If we can guarantee getting away with it is there any reason why we shouldn't do it.

My answer is that there is a reason why we shouldn't do the things we believe to be wrong even if we can guarantee getting away with it.

I wonder where that answer comes from [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

chez

[/ QUOTE ]

What if you believe it to be wrong to NOT molest little children?

[/ QUOTE ]
Then I should do it.

chez

[/ QUOTE ]Chez, I don't believe this is correct. And I believe it's obviously so. The desire to moleste children is obviously a dyfunction. You are basical making the statement that we should use any medicine to fix any medical ailment, or at best you are saying that mental dysfuntions don't exist.

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm not making any such statement, honest.

Suppose I am mentally disfunctional in such a scenario. if I'm aware of it then that means I don't believe its right not to molest little kids. If I'm not aware of it then I can't take it into account in the decisions I make.

chez

[/ QUOTE ] It's an axis I type disorder codes v61.21 physical abuse of a child and v61.21 sexual abuse of a child. One should seek clinical attention in the same way that one should seek medical attention if they develop cancer.

[/ QUOTE ]
I agree but that's because we believe they are wrong.

chez

[Borodog]

[ QUOTE ]
Physical illness is concrete and scientifically verifiable.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, this is wrong. It's one of the (many) reasons why socialized medicine fails. When people are compensated for being sick, more people become sick, often with no way of distinguishing the "really sick" from the "not really sick."

[ QUOTE ]
There is such a thing as perfect physical health... no such standard for mental health.

[/ QUOTE ]

Physical health and mental health are inextricably connected. Furthermore "health" is a space of indeterminate dimensionality without a clear means of measuring or even bounding many of its dimensions.

[PLOlover]

[ QUOTE ]
The idea is that people only act just because they do not have the power to get away with not doing so.

I just learned this so if i'm missing pieces or anything is incorrect, someone with more information feel free to chime in here and correct me.

So what do you think YOU would do, if presented a ring such as this? What do you think most other people would do?

[/ QUOTE ]

As a practical matter, look at how people live in their apartments or houses. Some people revert to being filthy pigs because they have no authority or parental figure to "make" them "clean up their room". Most normal people project their sense of self onto their dwelling and keep it clean and orderly.

Perhaps in the same vein, if one had awesome power, one would consider an entire city/country/world as his "own backyard" , and do the "right thing" in order to keep everything nice.

Of course, the pigs would wield any amount of power in an absolutely horrific manner.

[vhawk01]

[ QUOTE ]
Are you serious? Mental disorders are ideologically conditioned abstract categories of behavior. Physical illness is concrete and scientifically verifiable. There is such a thing as perfect physical health... no such standard for mental health. Your claims are absurd.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is an absurdly outdated modality of health.