HU CASH: do i raise this river for value?

[lwrunner103]

holy smokes bet the flop.

[ILOVEGRIMSTARR]

Bet the flop, raise the river. If I'm correct, Jay, you're saying you shouldn't raise the river here because he only calls you with hands that have you beat? That's borderline insane IMO. What can be be so worried about here? I mean I think 88 and 77 bet the flop, and J7 and J8 most likely don't 3-bet preflop.

We're really only worried about 33 here, and he's calling with a lot of other hands. I'm positive he's calling a raise with AA, any Jack obv, possible KK QQ also. Raising here is by far the best play.

PS: Why do you have the Final Pot amount at the bottom of the OP? Makes it a lot more obvious that you ended up all in vs a better hand and flaws people's advice.

[hra146]

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If I'm correct, Jay, you're saying you shouldn't raise the river here because he only calls you with hands that have you beat?

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wow, youre in trouble dood.


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[jakeduke]

wow this thread is crazy.

op,

give your read, please please please please bet the flop. he's probably checking thinking you're gonna bet, and plans on check-raising you out of your seat a la tuff_fish. i don't see how you can think of checking given the aggro nature of the game you describe. as played, the river is a definite raise. as others have said, you're miles ahead of his range, and more importantly, he'll call you with tons of hands you have crushed. in this kind of spot where you're way ahead of his range but aren't sure what all he'll call with, i tend to just make the raise and let villain decide what he wants to call with.

[bozzer]

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If I'm correct, Jay, you're saying you shouldn't raise the river here because he only calls you with hands that have you beat?

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wow, youre in trouble dood.


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quality modding

[abcjnich]

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Bet flop. Raise turn. Raise river.

Hands that will probably call you on river:

Good - 99, TT, QQ, KK, AA, J9, JT, JQ, JK, and maybe A7s or some weird 2 pair hands
Neutral - AJ
Bad - 33, 77, 88, 9T, J7, J8

Villain probably wouldn't re-raise with Jx when x is lower than 9 or T. Would Villain re-raise with T9 or 33? Either way, I think you are only scared of a few hands that might not even be in Villain's re-raising range and you are getting called by a bunch of hands that are more likely in Villain's re-raising range.

Easy raise for value.

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This is a very quality post coming from someone with only 16 posts. You honestly couldn't have messed up any more OP. Betting flop and/or raising turn is mandatory. He would normally call you down if you raise with a lot here, but if you raise river after checking and calling it looks EXACTLY like a slowplay and you're missing a ton of value.

[carko3]

Thanks for all the advice, sorry about the final pot thing.

Anyway, the guy had pocket 7s, so I lost a big pot.

Which now begs the question, if a guy 3bets me preflop, gets called, then checks on J J 3 ... what am I meant to put him on considering the nature of our game?

Why the [censored] would he go for a check-raise or check-call with 77 on JJ3 and give me the initiative in the hand ?

I don't know, but when he checked, I just assumed he had some unpaired high cards, or total air, and for some reason gave up. This is why I flat called the turn.

Am I wrong to think that his play here is strange, aside from wanting to "keep the pot small" with his decent mid pair and hopefully make showdown?

Isn't it just an easy bet for him with a middle pair on that board in this spot? Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems difficult to put him on 77 or 88 considering the preflop and flop action (but not the river obviously :@)

Would love to here from some of the experienced heads up players here.

[daveT]

Theory: If you put chips in the pot, they call, and you make more money.

Application: aggression on all streets.

River decision: Villian's range is way wider than what jay shark (I am not taking sides. I sometimes agree and disagree with all posters) is giving since we are looking at a LAG. ANY J is calling here.

Deviation from the norm: OP states that he would like to trap, and now that the trap is executed, doesn't it sound counter-intuitive to raise here, since once the trap is set, it should be plainly obvious to the villain what happened?

Yes, I would still raise, because villain would probably call with over pairs, etc. I don't know about shoving, but once you raise, you are committing yourself to a call.

[daveT]

I think you should go a level deeper and think about what your opponent thinks you have. When you bet the flop it probably looks like a stab. I wouldn't be surprised if he was to call you if you bet about 1/2 pot with a large range of hands, including overs, etc.

[dpdawson]

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Bet flop. Raise turn. Raise river.

Hands that will probably call you on river:

Good - 99, TT, QQ, KK, AA, J9, JT, JQ, JK, and maybe A7s or some weird 2 pair hands
Neutral - AJ
Bad - 33, 77, 88, 9T, J7, J8

Villain probably wouldn't re-raise with Jx when x is lower than 9 or T. Would Villain re-raise with T9 or 33? Either way, I think you are only scared of a few hands that might not even be in Villain's re-raising range and you are getting called by a bunch of hands that are more likely in Villain's re-raising range.

Easy raise for value.

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This is a very quality post coming from someone with only 16 posts. You honestly couldn't have messed up any more OP. Betting flop and/or raising turn is mandatory. He would normally call you down if you raise with a lot here, but if you raise river after checking and calling it looks EXACTLY like a slowplay and you're missing a ton of value.

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Thanks!