NL Bots on Full Tilt

[Chump Change]

[ QUOTE ]
If, as the OP asserts, someone is betting $5 into a $100 pot on the river, are you really going to instafold because "that's what the book says"? You're not at least going to think about it?

[/ QUOTE ]

(InstaEdit: Just scrolling up on this page I see a request of asking for other players databases to corroborate these stats, so maybe the thread came along after the first 2/3)



And sadly enough, hear I am.

I'm guessing 1100 posts and not one single person has said a [censored] thing about OP providing a hand history, or more importantly a hand # so it can be independently verified, to back up this claim or any other claim about specific hands; about things that are not shown by PT stats. It was all just blindly accepted.

And on the topic of PT stats... I was unaware many of the participants in this thread even played serious poker, and i'm guessing i'm right considering the ignorance of PT stats. It's OPs own [censored] database, he can manipulate it however he wants. Other than posting a brag (BBV holla) I can think of no other reason to [censored] with your own stats save for proving some weird point like this. All it takes is omission of a few key hands and suddenly the numbers start to equalize down to the 3rd and 4th decimal point, the group of douchebags sitting in a room (lolz no offense) playing the same inferior style starts to like TEH LOL BOTAMENTS1!

Now, unless it directly affects some of my BBV friends I could care less about NLHE full ring drying up.

Unlike Nation I truly have no vested interest in one way or the other, I'm just ACTUALLY RLY SRSRLY standing for the truth and justice.

Nothing the OP said has even been questioned and REPEATEDLY anecdotes have been used to supplement fact (1/10 blocking bet on the river, etc.) when from the beginning OP should've been held to the same stringent standards BOTFARM CREW4LYFE has been held to.

Reread the OP. It's a textbook case of working backwards, where he saw simliar stats, drew a conclusion of BOTZ, and worked to find information to substantiate this claim.

BOTZ, sweatshops, douchebags, whatev, the lack of even having a notion that one side of a debate's [censored] doesn't also stink is no kind of truth or justice i've ever participated in, nor want to.

[Bahuny]

one for the thumb sighting...

Bodog History for Hand #709081326
Hold'em No Limit ($0.25/$0.50) - 2007-05-11 20:37:16
Table 'We-Ko-Pa' 9-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 2: oneforthethumb ($18.10)
Seat 4: money in da ban ($46.65)
Seat 5: Bahuny ($49.50)
Seat 6: Jordan1410 ($45.35)
Seat 7: Gumby ($51.35)
------------------------------
NEW HAND
money in da ban: posts the small blind $0.25
Bahuny: posts the big blind $0.50
--- DEALING POCKETS
Bahuny is dealt [5s,Qs]
Jordan1410: folds
Gumby: calls $0.50
oneforthethumb: folds
money in da ban: calls $0.25
Bahuny: checks
--- DEALING FLOP [Qh,9c,9s]
A New $0.10/$0.25 Texas Hold'em table Lionhead has started.
money in da ban: checks
Bahuny: checks
Gumby: checks
--- DEALING TURN [Jc]
money in da ban: checks
Bahuny: checks
Gumby: checks
--- DEALING RIVER [Kh]

[pepeman]

They say they take notes on the players, and yet they play the same against every opponent, hmmmm... Maybe its because they are still working on the bot software to take the notes into consideration when making a decision. They will do that very soon they will get a lot better at playing poker.

[futuredoc85]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Thank god im one of the few 2p2ers actually beating the games

[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah it's you and like two other guys, right?

[/ QUOTE ]

i would say like 10% of 2p2 maybe, def not much more

[Chump Change]

[ QUOTE ]
Can't everyone just open up their own pokertracker, isolate 100k sets of hands and see if their numbers add up in an identical fashion to those of the bots. I am too blazed to do this myself/lazy.

It seems the most damning piece of evidence is the stats, so can someone just quickly prove that a real human has variant in their stats over 100k sets of hands and bots don't and we can stop having this discussion and start the smear FTP/hate on bots campaign already?

[/ QUOTE ]

This fellow said what needed to be said 1000 posts earlier.

[Lovesantiques]

Interesting discussion. There were 30 pages when I started reading, now there are 88 - and I'm still 10 pages behind on reading. Have been since page 40. Guess I need to learn how to read faster. :-)

I'm a newbie here, but I do have some questions that I would appreciate somebody who knows more (probably everyone who is posting) answering.

1. I see the terms "Dataming", "Datatracking", "Pokertracking", "Pokerstat", etc. being used. What programs are there to get this sort of information? I can certainly see that tracking my own play with them would be helpfull.

2. What is meant by "VPIP", "PM", "14/7", "C-Bet", and "ptBB"? I see these used a lot in this discussion, but am left in the dark as to their meaning.

3. Who or what is Rainkhan? Clearly not a fan favorite here....

4. It certainly does appear that something really wrong is happening over at Full Tilt - where I play. I don't think that bots should be allowed, and have been under the impression that they aren't. And that the major sites all have ways of spotting and stopping them.

Now I'm really worried. Are there bots at the low ($10 & $20 sit n gos and the under $1 limit games)?

It is certainly not a good sign to me that Full Tilt hasn't responded. Reminds me of another company I deal with that is also non-responsive and doesn't care at all about the people using its site. Not that we have a choice, in that case.

The fact that Full Tilt cleared them once doesn't mean much to me. Could have been a mistake on Full Tilt's part, could have been worse than that. I don't know. We don't have all the information, that's for sure. But what is being presented is fairly damning.

Sad at what I've learned tonight. Wish that someone at Full Tilt would join the discussion and at least show that they care.

Thanks in advance for answering my questions.

Lee

[bobbyi]

[ QUOTE ]
It's OPs own [censored] database, he can manipulate it however he wants. Other than posting a brag (BBV holla) I can think of no other reason to [censored] with your own stats save for proving some weird point like this. All it takes is omission of a few key hands

[/ QUOTE ]
nlnut agreed that the stats OP posted were accurate

[happyhappyhappy]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If, as the OP asserts, someone is betting $5 into a $100 pot on the river, are you really going to instafold because "that's what the book says"? You're not at least going to think about it?

[/ QUOTE ]

(InstaEdit: Just scrolling up on this page I see a request of asking for other players databases to corroborate these stats, so maybe the thread came along after the first 2/3)



And sadly enough, hear I am.

I'm guessing 1100 posts and not one single person has said a [censored] thing about OP providing a hand history, or more importantly a hand # so it can be independently verified, to back up this claim or any other claim about specific hands; about things that are not shown by PT stats. It was all just blindly accepted.

And on the topic of PT stats... I was unaware many of the participants in this thread even played serious poker, and i'm guessing i'm right considering the ignorance of PT stats. It's OPs own [censored] database, he can manipulate it however he wants. Other than posting a brag (BBV holla) I can think of no other reason to [censored] with your own stats save for proving some weird point like this. All it takes is omission of a few key hands and suddenly the numbers start to equalize down to the 3rd and 4th decimal point, the group of douchebags sitting in a room (lolz no offense) playing the same inferior style starts to like TEH LOL BOTAMENTS1!

Now, unless it directly affects some of my BBV friends I could care less about NLHE full ring drying up.

Unlike Nation I truly have no vested interest in one way or the other, I'm just ACTUALLY RLY SRSRLY standing for the truth and justice.

Nothing the OP said has even been questioned and REPEATEDLY anecdotes have been used to supplement fact (1/10 blocking bet on the river, etc.) when from the beginning OP should've been held to the same stringent standards BOTFARM CREW4LYFE has been held to.

Reread the OP. It's a textbook case of working backwards, where he saw simliar stats, drew a conclusion of BOTZ, and worked to find information to substantiate this claim.

BOTZ, sweatshops, douchebags, whatev, the lack of even having a notion that one side of a debate's [censored] doesn't also stink is no kind of truth or justice i've ever participated in, nor want to.

[/ QUOTE ]

You done?

[Chump Change]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
neither. its all memorized. However, we did first construct it on paper.

[/ QUOTE ]

No.


575/2497 = 0.230276332
216/961 = 0.224765869
538/2403 = 0.223886808
411/1836 = 0.223856209

[/ QUOTE ]

Why isn't it something as simple and dumb 'bet % of rivers' and they keep track of it, tally marks and the like, to fill the quota?
This is far-fetched and stupid, but it is an 'explanation' and it would explain NLnut's embarassament (reservation) about revealing it. (I would be)
It's just disappointing to hear people say 'NO WAY THEY CAN BE THE SAME' because it's hyperbole and doesn't have a place in this discussion. It's just not true. I can decide to semi-randomly bet 23% of rivers. It doesn't mean i'll win, but I can do it.

[GrannyMae]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
donktastic,

the fact that you think i should be removed as mod just because i'm defending chuck's actions (which are within the t&c) is so LOL.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nation

You have made many posts in this forum and I have read them all. Read mine if you like. You can defend your friend all you like and for that your position as a mod should not be questioned.
I do question your unprofessionalism in your posts. All your lol's sarcasm etc ... should be avoided in a thread such as this. Many of your posts were childish and rude to other members. As a mod you should have a higher standard. I think your reaction to many of the comments only serve to reduce the credibility of twoplustwo and other mods. If I was mangement I would require that improve your behaviour on this site.

[/ QUOTE ]

come on man. I've had mods treat me way worse than this. There is no higher standard. (Yesterday in the AI forum for one)

Greg

[/ QUOTE ]

when i deleted your post during your tilting in AIW that said Lakisha needed 2 airline tickets because she was so fat?

my, how sensitive.


[/hijack]