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#21
08-15-2006, 03:39 PM
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Re: Tom Brady Best QB Ever!!!!!!
Also before someone suggests that Brady only wins because of a great defense and that Manning would win with the same defense, let me stop that argument with some actual facts:
2001 Pats- SB Champs, 24th ranked defense 2003 Pats- SB Champs, 7th ranked defense 2004 Pats- SB Champs, 9th ranked defense 
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#22
08-15-2006, 03:48 PM
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Re: Tom Brady Best QB Ever!!!!!!
[ QUOTE ]
Carson Palmer has arguably the best WR in the game, 2 solid RBs, and a very solid #2 and #3 WR. Brady led the league in TD passes one year with Troy Brown, David Patten, and a rookie Deion Branch at WR and A. Smith as his RB. Brady has also obviously won a lot more. Carson Palmer took over a team coming off an 8-8 year IIRC. He has yet to win a playoff game. Tom Brady took over a team coming off a 5-11 year and that was 0-2 when he took over. He led them to 3 super bowls in 4 years. As I said, its laughable to suggest that any current NFL QB is better than Brady. Go ahead- I challenge anyone to try to make an argument. [/ QUOTE ] Alright, I'll take the bait. In the NFL I think alot of the success a quarterback has is the system he is in. Examples being Warner during his St. Louis days and to a lesser extent Ben Roethlisburger. I think we all saw what an offensive guru Weis is with what he did at Notre Dame. Now I'm not saying that Brady doesn't have great poise and doesn't make tough completions sometimes, but I think if you put him on an average team he wouldn't be as good. The Pats have a great system and Brady stays within that system, but I think he is a product of it and is as good as he is because of it.
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#23
08-15-2006, 03:52 PM
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Re: Tom Brady Best QB Ever!!!!!!
[ QUOTE ]
I think if you put him on an average team he wouldn't be as good. The Pats have a great system and Brady stays within that system, but I think he is a product of it and is as good as he is because of it. [/ QUOTE ] name any QB who would be as good on a worse team
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#24
08-15-2006, 04:00 PM
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Re: Tom Brady Best QB Ever!!!!!!
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Carson Palmer has arguably the best WR in the game, 2 solid RBs, and a very solid #2 and #3 WR. Brady led the league in TD passes one year with Troy Brown, David Patten, and a rookie Deion Branch at WR and A. Smith as his RB. Brady has also obviously won a lot more. Carson Palmer took over a team coming off an 8-8 year IIRC. He has yet to win a playoff game. Tom Brady took over a team coming off a 5-11 year and that was 0-2 when he took over. He led them to 3 super bowls in 4 years. As I said, its laughable to suggest that any current NFL QB is better than Brady. Go ahead- I challenge anyone to try to make an argument. [/ QUOTE ] Alright, I'll take the bait. In the NFL I think alot of the success a quarterback has is the system he is in. Examples being Warner during his St. Louis days and to a lesser extent Ben Roethlisburger. I think we all saw what an offensive guru Weis is with what he did at Notre Dame. Now I'm not saying that Brady doesn't have great poise and doesn't make tough completions sometimes, but I think if you put him on an average team he wouldn't be as good. The Pats have a great system and Brady stays within that system, but I think he is a product of it and is as good as he is because of it. [/ QUOTE ] Belicheck that that coaching staff took over in 2000. In 2000 Drew Bledsoe threw for under 3300 yards as he started all 16 games. Not including his rookie year in which he played a partial season, that was Bledsoe's lowest number of yards in his career up to that point. He threw for 17 TDs and 13 INTs- once again, very average. He had a 77.3 QB rating- very average once again. I his first two games in 2001, he had 2 INTs and 2 TDs as his team scored 20 points in 2 games. Two years later, Tom Brady led the NFL in touchdown passes in that same system. Now Drew Bledsoe isn't the best QB in the world, but hes far from the worst either. Hes a former pro bowler, who has put up some incredible stats, and who actually has a decent shot at becomming a HOFer some day. How come the system didn't help him? Heres another little stat for you to chew on: Bill Belicheck has a losing career record in games in which Tom Brady is not his Quarterback. You still think that Brady just succeeds because of Belicheck's system?
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#25
08-15-2006, 04:02 PM
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Re: Tom Brady Best QB Ever!!!!!!
[ QUOTE ]
I think if you put him on an average team he wouldn't be as good. [/ QUOTE ] But thats the point! The 20001 Pats were worse than an average team- they were horrible! Go take a look back at some old 2001 preseason prognostications- Nearly everyone predicted them to be one of the worst teams in the entire NFL. After 2 weeks, I remember one sportswriter writing something like this(totally paraphrasing here): "In today's NFL there are few certainties except of course that the Patriots will be the ones with the #1 overall pick in next year's draft."
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#26
08-15-2006, 04:07 PM
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Re: Tom Brady Best QB Ever!!!!!!
And btw, I disagree with you about systems. While I do think they are important, I think that players' talent is more important.
The St Louis "system", for example, wasn't successful because it was a revolutionary offense- in fact, it was a rather average system that had been done a ton before. It was successful because Holt, Bruce, and Faulk made up a fabulous suppporting cast for them. Who is Brady's great supporting cast?
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#27
08-15-2006, 05:46 PM
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Re: Tom Brady Best QB Ever!!!!!!
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Carson Palmer has arguably the best WR in the game, 2 solid RBs, and a very solid #2 and #3 WR. Brady led the league in TD passes one year with Troy Brown, David Patten, and a rookie Deion Branch at WR and A. Smith as his RB. Brady has also obviously won a lot more. Carson Palmer took over a team coming off an 8-8 year IIRC. He has yet to win a playoff game. Tom Brady took over a team coming off a 5-11 year and that was 0-2 when he took over. He led them to 3 super bowls in 4 years. As I said, its laughable to suggest that any current NFL QB is better than Brady. Go ahead- I challenge anyone to try to make an argument. [/ QUOTE ] Alright, I'll take the bait. In the NFL I think alot of the success a quarterback has is the system he is in. Examples being Warner during his St. Louis days and to a lesser extent Ben Roethlisburger. I think we all saw what an offensive guru Weis is with what he did at Notre Dame. Now I'm not saying that Brady doesn't have great poise and doesn't make tough completions sometimes, but I think if you put him on an average team he wouldn't be as good. The Pats have a great system and Brady stays within that system, but I think he is a product of it and is as good as he is because of it. [/ QUOTE ] Tom Brady had what was easily his best season in 2005-2006 without Charlie Weis and with his offensive linemen dropping like flies. Believe it or not, he led the league in passing yardage last season.
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#29
08-15-2006, 06:09 PM
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Re: Tom Brady Best QB Ever!!!!!!
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Carson Palmer has arguably the best WR in the game, 2 solid RBs, and a very solid #2 and #3 WR. Brady led the league in TD passes one year with Troy Brown, David Patten, and a rookie Deion Branch at WR and A. Smith as his RB. Brady has also obviously won a lot more. Carson Palmer took over a team coming off an 8-8 year IIRC. He has yet to win a playoff game. Tom Brady took over a team coming off a 5-11 year and that was 0-2 when he took over. He led them to 3 super bowls in 4 years. As I said, its laughable to suggest that any current NFL QB is better than Brady. Go ahead- I challenge anyone to try to make an argument. [/ QUOTE ] Alright, I'll take the bait. In the NFL I think alot of the success a quarterback has is the system he is in. Examples being Warner during his St. Louis days and to a lesser extent Ben Roethlisburger. I think we all saw what an offensive guru Weis is with what he did at Notre Dame. Now I'm not saying that Brady doesn't have great poise and doesn't make tough completions sometimes, but I think if you put him on an average team he wouldn't be as good. The Pats have a great system and Brady stays within that system, but I think he is a product of it and is as good as he is because of it. [/ QUOTE ] Tom Brady had what was easily his best statistical season in 2005-2006 without Charlie Weis and with his offensive linemen dropping like flies. Believe it or not, he led the league in passing yardage last season. [/ QUOTE ] Edited for accuracy. I'm a big believer that team success is way more important than personal stats when it comes to evaluating QBs, basketball players, and hockey players(out of the 4 major sports). Of course, surrounding cast must be looked at as well in these cases.
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