AP thread 872.6 - Statement ITT

[waveydavey]

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What about rakeback affiliates? I took AP and UB off my rakeback site but i'm not sure it's the correct decision.

If a client wants to play at AP knowing what has happened, who am I to tell them they can't?

Tuco.

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You can tell them that you don't think they should play there. It's a valid opinion. And you can choose not to list them on your site if you feel that's the right thing to do.

It's all about personal choices, yours for your reasons, and other players who may or may not continue to play at AP or UB for their own reasons.

Personally I think player boycotts, or attacking each other, are pointless exercises. I believe that the only way AP will get punished in any realistic way is if the appropriate authorities get involved. That will come about by players coming up with the evidence, (as they have), and handing it over to the authorities, who actually have the power to press criminal charges. I can't help but think this would be so much easier for Nat et. al. if the PPA would support them.

[Cruzincat]

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I just want to highlight that there is no evidence - beyond an anonymous poster on an internet message board - that there was any wrong doing by AP in the car raffle and/or the charity popcorn.

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I understand what you are saying, but i'm not anonymous. I will stand behind the car lease fraud 100%. The person who told me about it is above reproach and telling the truth. I will happily bet lots of $$ that it is a fact.

Further on popcorngate, this person also said the proceeds made it back to Vancouver as it was in plain view in the office. Where it went after that, they didn't know.

Adam.

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Didn't someone post a link to a 2p2 thread where it stated a 2p2 member won the car?

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It was something about a freeroll and it was on UB.

[Pokeraddict]

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- Harass AP affiliates, blacklist them, refuse to give business to anyone who deals with AP. Loss of affiliate traffic is definitely going to hurt AP.

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What about rakeback affiliates? I took AP and UB off my rakeback site but i'm not sure it's the correct decision.

If a client wants to play at AP knowing what has happened, who am I to tell them they can't?

Tuco.

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FWIW I think you made the right decision. Your competitors don't look like they are going to do the same thing though.

[HAE]

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Just went to CardPlayer.COM: NO MENTION WHAT SO EVER OF THE AP SCANDAL! but there was a big "Absolute Poker Banner" with jackpot info on the front page. like i said 98% of poker players don't read forums and most of the ones that do don't care! they always figured online poker was rigged anyway.

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http://www.cardplayer.com/poker-news/art...ch-investigated
http://www.cardplayer.com/poker-news...ecurity-breach

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Thanks for coming here stranger and pointing this out with your very first post!

Of course these stories aren't mentioned on Cardplayer.com's home page, nor are they mentioned in the News page. CardPlayer is trying to bury this story to protect their advertiser. CardPlayer sucks and should be boycotted until they start refusing AP advertising and start featuring the AP cheating story .

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Funny.. both headlines show on page 2 of the news archives here, yesterday the last was on the frontpage, I wouldn't call that "NO MENTION WHAT SO EVER".

They could (and probably should) have permanent link to these on the frontpage.

[h11]

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Mohawk Financial Services
Attn: Account Services
P.O. Box 2100
Kahnawake, Quebec J0L 1B0

... (snip) ...
Steve
Team Absolute ~ Deposit Center


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Sure, they are in bed now, but this just shows how much influence Kahnawake has over AP if they choose to exercise it. Not only could they threaten to pull the plug on their servers, but they apparently could choke off one of AP's main financial conduits.

I don't think Joe Norton knew anything about the cheating at AP until a few weeks ago. No doubt he is furious that his name and KGC has been dragged into this. But so far he has calculated that his best response is to issue the statement and otherwise take no forceful action such as an immediate revocation of AP's license. The key is to change that calculation.

-pyg

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AP has sent me checks from that address, as well as from Germany and San Diego. AP used to be listed as a permit holder at the KGC site, but it no longer is on the list. I vaguely recall someone posting that it might be in "application pending" status, which might reflect a change of ownership requiring a new application. The Mohawks are selling use of a mega communication spine running beneath their land which is adjacent to the US and which arguably operates legally, given that the tribe reached agreement with the French about a hundred years before the USA was created that they are a sovereign nation, arguably giving them the right to have gambling if they want. Canada apparently disagrees with that but apparently does not want to stir up a dispute with them.

[FoxInTheHenHouse]

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What about rakeback affiliates? I took AP and UB off my rakeback site but i'm not sure it's the correct decision.

If a client wants to play at AP knowing what has happened, who am I to tell them they can't?

Tuco.

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You can tell them that you don't think they should play there. It's a valid opinion. And you can choose not to list them on your site if you feel that's the right thing to do.

It's all about personal choices, yours for your reasons, and other players who may or may not continue to play at AP or UB for their own reasons.

Personally I think player boycotts, or attacking each other, are pointless exercises. I believe that the only way AP will get punished in any realistic way is if the appropriate authorities get involved. That will come about by players coming up with the evidence, (as they have), and handing it over to the authorities, who actually have the power to press criminal charges. I can't help but think this would be so much easier for Nat et. al. if the PPA would support them.

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You're wrong in all aspects with this answer.

The only way Absolute will suffer and pay for this crime is through financial loss. The players and affiliates are the only enforcers that have power here.

The only reason this story broke was because of LUCK. Someone goofed by sending the xl file and someone else took the time to decipher it. The odds of that happening again are astronomical.

This is a once in a lifetime occurrence. The players and affiliates must force this to a resolution.

[PoorSkillz]

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Of course these stories aren't mentioned on Cardplayer.com's home page, nor are they mentioned in the News page. CardPlayer is trying to bury this story to protect their advertiser. CardPlayer sucks and should be boycotted until they start refusing AP advertising and start featuring the AP cheating story .

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While Cardplayer reaches a lot of the poker-playing public, I believe ESPN.com reaches far more of the casual poker-playing demographic who have not yet heard this story. However, ESPN has also, so far, buried this story in their "ESPN Poker Club" section. This may be because of ESPN's business interests involving poker, but with enough pressure, they would probably feature this story on their homepage. And if ESPN still doesn’t bring greater coverage to this story, if enough people report that to ESPN’s ombudsman she may bring this issue up.

[LuckyMux]

Folks,

A previous poster hit on something important. Remember, old time gangsters used to go to jail for tax evasion, not racketeering.

The $10k charity fraud really could be the key to getting these little scumbags put away. It was a serious felony, on US soil, and there are plenty of witnesses.

The accusation is already in the public domain and the Costa Rican police are not required for this one.

AP has had long enough to refute it by showing who got the $10k and they haven't. Like everything they say or do, it stinks.

Anyone who was there, anyone who paid the $1, or was involved, or knows anything else about it: REPORT IT TO THE POLICE TODAY. It's a crime and they are legally bound to investigate if you tell them about it.

If a dozen of you report it, they will certainly take it very seriously indeed - coked-up millionaires robbing from a charity? The cops will rub their hands with glee.

So, get on the phone and report it!

[h11]

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What about rakeback affiliates? I took AP and UB off my rakeback site but i'm not sure it's the correct decision.

If a client wants to play at AP knowing what has happened, who am I to tell them they can't?

Tuco.

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You can tell them that you don't think they should play there. It's a valid opinion. And you can choose not to list them on your site if you feel that's the right thing to do.

It's all about personal choices, yours for your reasons, and other players who may or may not continue to play at AP or UB for their own reasons.

Personally I think player boycotts, or attacking each other, are pointless exercises. I believe that the only way AP will get punished in any realistic way is if the appropriate authorities get involved. That will come about by players coming up with the evidence, (as they have), and handing it over to the authorities, who actually have the power to press criminal charges. I can't help but think this would be so much easier for Nat et. al. if the PPA would support them.

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You're wrong in all aspects with this answer.

The only way Absolute will suffer and pay for this crime is through financial loss. The players and affiliates are the only enforcers that have power here.

The only reason this story broke was because of LUCK. Someone goofed by sending the xl file and someone else took the time to decipher it. The odds of that happening again are astronomical.

This is a once in a lifetime occurrence. The players and affiliates must force this to a resolution.

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Someone posted volume stats for the past couple weeks, and it appeared that traffic at AP was down about 15%. It seems to me that there are fewer regulars at the AP tables I play on. For most of this year I have played only at AP and even I, someone who thinks that it benefits me personally if AP gets fishier, have started playing some on Stars and Full Tilt, getting in the groove there just in case AP somehow gets unplayable. So they are paying a price, and I think the price will get worse before it gets better for them. I want AP to be stung, but not to death. I think that's the best solution. Say a fifty million dollar hit in their value, that should be sufficient incentive for others to work to avoid cheating. And if they have a permanent decline in traffic of about thirty percent, that's probably a fifty million dollar hit, roughly.

[waveydavey]

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You're wrong in all aspects with this answer.

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A matter of opinion I guess, as was my post fwiw.

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The only way Absolute will suffer and pay for this crime is through financial loss. The players and affiliates are the only enforcers that have power here.

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As a player at Absolute Poker I have absolutely no power to bring criminal charges against them, prosecute them, fine them, or send them to jail. There is nothing as a player that I can enforce.

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The only reason this story broke was because of LUCK. Someone goofed by sending the xl file and someone else took the time to decipher it. The odds of that happening again are astronomical.

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Again a matter of opinion. Sure someone got careless, and someone savvy enough to realise it asked for a hand history . It was lucky that the entire tournament details were sent, but it may or may not have been a goof. My own feeling is that it was a deliberate disclosure, but again that's just my opinion, and at this juncture a moot point.

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This is a once in a lifetime occurrence. The players and affiliates must force this to a resolution.

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We hope it's a once in a lifetime occurrence, and I agree that the players and affiliates should take steps to help in getting a resolution, (which, thanks to those that are actively working on this, they are doing). But a boycott? I really don't see that having any long term effect. I believe that there are more effective means to bringing about a resolution than telling people they shouldn't play there.