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Old 12-01-2007, 04:29 AM
mimicme mimicme is offline
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Default General Questions regarding preflop play / leaks

1. In live full ring games, suppose the table is pretty decent, not everyone is a rock, how often should you be cold-calling 2 bets. Should you always take a 3 bet or fold mentality? What situations would be good to cold call 2 bets? How big a leak is it in a tight game?

2. What are mistakes players generally make that are huge leaks?

3. What are mistakes players generally make that are minor?

4. How important is getting extra bets in and value betting thin? Or what are situations where players aren't maximizing their winrate?
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  #2  
Old 12-01-2007, 09:38 AM
sternroolz sternroolz is offline
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Default Re: General Questions regarding preflop play / leaks

[ QUOTE ]

2. What are mistakes players generally make that are huge leaks?

[/ QUOTE ]

Sweat me sometimes. You'll get a pretty good idea.
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  #3  
Old 12-01-2007, 11:09 AM
lucid75 lucid75 is offline
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Default Re: General Questions regarding preflop play / leaks

1. usually you should be 3betting or folding pf. There are some spots, where you can take a cold call line, but that's only with hands like KQ/AT vs a middle position raise from a medium tight player. Or, (rarely) if ~ the entire table limps, and someone in late pos. raises and you have 78ss, you can consider flatting. But otherwise flatting 2 cold isn't a good idea.

2. cocaine.

3. marijuana.

4. v important. against aggro players who will c/r (semi)bluff or raise (semi)bluff on the turn/river, it's advisable to get to the showdown with marginal hands, unless you want to get blown off your hand or make some hero calls.
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  #4  
Old 12-01-2007, 02:55 PM
amulet amulet is offline
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Default Re: General Questions regarding preflop play / leaks

1. In live full ring games, suppose the table is pretty decent, not everyone is a rock, how often should you be cold-calling 2 bets. Should you always take a 3 bet or fold mentality? What situations would be good to cold call 2 bets? How big a leak is it in a tight game? ALMOST NEVER CALL 2 BETS UNLESS IT IS MULTIWAY (MORE THEN 3 PLAYERS, HOPEFULLY 5 OR MORE). VS 2 OR 3 OPPONENTS YOU SHOULD 3 BET.

2. What are mistakes players generally make that are huge leaks? EACH PLAYER HAS DIFFERENT LEAKS. POSTFLOP PLAY IS WHEN MOST OF THE MONEY IS WON OR LOST. UNDERSTANDING POST FLOP PLAY IS THE KEY.

3. What are mistakes players generally make that are minor?

4. How important is getting extra bets in and value betting thin? Or what are situations where players aren't maximizing their winrate? VALUE BETTING IS VERY IMPORTANT. IT CAN ADD 1/2 OR MORE BB PER HOUR.
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  #5  
Old 12-01-2007, 03:22 PM
emerson emerson is offline
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Default Re: General Questions regarding preflop play / leaks

[ QUOTE ]
1. In live full ring games, suppose the table is pretty decent, not everyone is a rock, how often should you be cold-calling 2 bets. Should you always take a 3 bet or fold mentality? What situations would be good to cold call 2 bets? How big a leak is it in a tight game?

2. What are mistakes players generally make that are huge leaks?

3. What are mistakes players generally make that are minor?

4. How important is getting extra bets in and value betting thin? Or what are situations where players aren't maximizing their winrate?

[/ QUOTE ]


If nobody has yet called the raise, you might cold call once every 8 to 10 hours. Probably hands like AJs and KQs only... and KQs is very marginal if nobody else has yet called as you really want multi-way.

Medium pocket pairs, 88, 99, TT, call if somebody else has called the raise before you. If everybody after the raiser has folded to you then these should usually be three bets as you won't get the pot odds to draw to a set.

Other hands like smaller pocket pairs and suited connectors should only be played for two bets when a few others have called the raise before you.

In a looser but somewhat passive game that usually has 5 or more player to the flop, even when it has been raised, you can cold call with hands like 44, 55, 66 when there are five or more players yet to act as you will usually get the odds you need to draw to the set. But that is not the game you are describing here.

Big mistake is playing the same way in multi-way pots that you'd play in heads up pots... like making continuation bets on the turn with air with 3 opponents. Or calling with top pair small kicker after a bet and raise.

My big leak: playing live games the same way you'd play online. Thinking that mediocre players are always making moves on you. Example: pair of sixes against one opponent who is betting with one broadway on the board, not an ace. Probably a call down online against a tough player and a fold live.

Minor mistakes: cold calling with pretty strong hands that should be three bet. I've read that it is major but believe it must be minor because I've seen some authors suggest it and have seen winning pro player do it often. But I'm still inclined to think it is a leak.
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  #6  
Old 12-01-2007, 04:27 PM
rafiki rafiki is offline
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Default Re: General Questions regarding preflop play / leaks

4) I was super nittish with this till I started really reading this section. I was the guy with TT who would check when the river was a Q, just because he "could" have a Q. Although I'm still far from a master of bet/folding the river (and it's frequently more correct to bet/call anyways), I'm making way more with those thin value bets.
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  #7  
Old 12-01-2007, 05:20 PM
NinaWilliams NinaWilliams is offline
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Default Re: General Questions regarding preflop play / leaks

1) Rarely. Good spots to cold call are like you have QJs OTB, its raised in mp and 2 callers. Or KQs vs an EP raise when you can expect a lot of callers. I cant think of a spot where I would cold call and offsuit hand.

2) Big leaks that I see are missing easy value bets, paying off in spots where you're almost never good, folding too much in big pots, and conversely calling too much in small pots. Cold calling too much is the most common one I see though.

3) Small leaks are stuff like not being trappy enough in small limped pots, underdefending your bb vs a loose stealer, not 3 betting light enough vs late position raisers(I guess this goes with cold calling too much).

4) Making thin/good value bets is extremely important. Thin value bet spots come up very often and missing them will cost you severly. Situations where players arent maximizing their winrate are not being aggressive enough in big pots, not playing back at loose stealers with a wide enough range.
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