Step into the tee box

[ziggydonks]

anybody looking for advice on their short game should go to strassa2chip.com. You will find valuable advice, such as how to 4 chip from just off a flat, large green and how hit greenside bunker shots 75 yards.

[Jason Strasser (strassa2)]

I'm sorry the fact that posters talk to each other off the boards annoys you. I think you so completely misread my post that I'm not going to even bother responding to your points, because you couldn't be more wrong.

-Jason

[Jason Strasser (strassa2)]

Don't be jealous cause im better at poker kyle [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[adanthar]

The point that Jason's trying to make is not that you shouldn't adjust, it's that you should always think about what the 'optimal' play against a thinking player would be and *then* downgrade it against a bad one. It's not enough to say something like 'he's a donk, push', because in order to advance your game, you have to know what you would do in the same situation against somebody who bought in for $215 and expects to make money on the buyin every single time. (I disagree with this. I think that it is imperative that you learn 'he's a donk, push' first, and *then* add layers of thought to your game, because overthinking can be as bad as not thinking at all and still costs me money on a regular basis. But there's room for disagreement here.)

The second part of your post is simply not true as almost all of the top players here that I know of respond to a good chunk of the messages they get both on and offline. Yeah, nobody responds to every random thread, but if you've got some really interesting question it's tough to think of a legitimate poster who wouldn't ever answer a PM.

Finally, to address one thing about Jason's post - most of the top tournament players are not as good as the top cash game players in deep stack poker. However, most cash game players, including many of the top pros, *suck* at shallow stack poker. Sometimes, especially in WPT events, that doesn't matter very much, but in most online tournaments I would put a dozen people in this forum up against a dozen cash game pros and absolutely own them all with 8-15 BB. (Not to say that any winner at, say, 300/600 and higher couldn't be just as good at tournaments if given a few months of intensive study/hands. But for whatever reason, they usually don't seem to bother.)

[Foucault]

Great post, Jason. You really ought to be writing for the magazine.

[Jason Strasser (strassa2)]

[ QUOTE ]
I think this is an interesting post but my thought is you have to learn to walk before you run.

[/ QUOTE ]

I obviously don't disagree with this, I just dont think many players are actually heading towards running.

[MicroBob]

Post of the Year.

Great stuff Jason. Very inspiring.


A few things:

1. Just because you posted it here doesn't mean you shouldn't submit it to the magazine. Not everyone makes it over to this forum (much less opens every thread when they're here). And I believe Mason specifically stated that you can submit a post to the magazine and they will consider it just the same.
Think about it. It's a free $200 for you!!! (woo-hoo!!!)


2. I played in the HULA ML this year which is just Heads-up 'matches' for play-money. And I really benefitted. Yeah...we would all joke about how "so-and-so did a better job sucking-out then so-and-so"....but I found that sitting there and actually trying to out-smart and out-donk-bet an opponent who I know is decent was an extremely valuable experience for me.


3. I also suck at golf. Have never broken 100. And have basically given it up for the time-being (although may pick it up again if Jason's post inspires me to play better and I get more disposable income as well as more free-time).
Golf is a really great game...but it sucks to suck THAT badly at it.
My Dad got me clubs when I was 6....and I would try and try but I just couldn't ever hit the damn ball with any consistency.
In the meanwhile, he picked up the game in his 30's and quickly improved to a single-digit handicap.

[MLG]

I think this is a reall great post, and a well thought out analogy. I only disagree with one thing.

[ QUOTE ]
You don’t want to be a $5, $10, $200 player forever. You don’t want to be just a tournament player forever. You don’t just want to understand NL holdem forever. You want to be the best at everything. That should be your goal, at least

[/ QUOTE ]

People play poker for all sorts of reasons. Some people just want to be winners at the 5 dollar level, and have no desire to move up and I don't think there's anything really wrong with that.

[EverettKings]

Strass

I have a request for you and the other posters who have made this climb from beating the 10+1s to beating 10/20 NL and competing in WPT events.

Probably the most helpful thing in the world for a player trying to advance is to see a more advanced player think. Just listening to how you look at a hand and what goes through the head of a better player (like in the 'Play a hand with the masters' threads) does tenfold more work for my game than regular posting. So.

I feel like you hold back a lot. There are many, many times where I just wish you or MLG or Giga would spit out a few more words. Like there is so much more that you could say, that you could write a ten page essay, but often opt for a four word summary and sign your name.

It's hard to lay your game bare, to tell everyone (even some of your competition) exactly what goes on in your head, but isn't that what this forum is for? I feel like you restrict those conversations to your private AIM sessions between fellow acccomplished players, which does little good for the thirsty up-and-coming.

Basically, I know there's a lot more that you can say with every post that you make. I don't know what goes on inside your head but I want to know. There are many players who exemplify the attitude that you describe, whose only goal is to get as disgustingly good as possible, not to be on tv and wear shiny Binion's jewelry, but to be able beat just one more person each day. But they shouldn't have to single out a better player and ask for lessons and practice. That's the point of these boards, that you throw your deepest thoughts out there for anyone and everyone who wants to learn, not just those close enough to you to ask for it.

Actually, I've got an idea. Play and demolish me heads up. We'll play a series of 50+5s (or lower, if you can take it seriously) on stars, as many as you think it takes. Then write a page to the forum explaining in the finest detail what you went through your head that allowed you to beat me. I want to know why I got owned (or luckboxed my way to victory). Because until then, I won't quite be convinced that you're better than me.

Everett

[CybrPunk]

I can definitely relate to what you're saying Jason. While I love the discussion and analyses that go on here, I find my greatest learning experience has been thanks to a select few people that I speak with on instant messengers that I consder to be winning players. Their critique and support of my play has helped me to become a much better player than I ever was. Not only that, but my critique and analysis of THEIR play opens my eyes up in ways that no book ever did (and probably helps them too). I'm always up for discussions away from the forums with serious players.