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Old 10-20-2007, 07:25 PM
adanthar adanthar is offline
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Default AP thread 87.1 - waiting on the statement ITT

Special rule for this thread:

We are gonna keep unrelated pictures out of here for the reasons in the first reply. "Unrelated" means people that we can barely connect to this, such as Oscar Hilt, his wife and/or their chihuahua and two goldfish. This is potentially subject to change in the near future, but for now, let's keep this narrowed down to people we know to be involved. Also, keep in mind that knowing what they look like and any further detective work on that point doesn't really get us anywhere [right now] except the occasional Photoshop.


Cliffs' notes so far:

Cribbed from previous cliff's notes. Thanks to all. A lot of this is copy/pasted from Josem's last cliffnotes, so thanks Josem for those.



Short version: There is almost indisputable proof that users at AP were cheating by somehow viewing the whole cards of their opponents. Some information has come out that indicates an AP employee or ex-employee may have been involved. There is further evidence that it may be ex-owner, Scott Tom.

Long version:

---------- entire history since POTRIPPER tournament ----------

1) During a tournament played by cheater 'Potripper,' the person who ended up coming second ("Marco") thought he was cheated. He emailed Absolute, and they sent him a hand history file - an XLS file.

2) Marco opened up this file, it seemed all gibberish to him, and he didn't think anything of it.

3) First Absolute Poker scandal blow up - PT screenshots, etc. Graphical representation here: http://www.absolutepokercheats.com/vpipvbb.jpg

4) Fortnight passes

5) In passing discussion, Marco mentions he has this file. He shares it with a few people, including N 80 50 24(pokerdb.com maintainer, maker of The Poker Film, part owner of Bluff Media) who analyses what is in this file

6) Nat (N 82 50 24) & 2p2 poster Snagglepuss discover that this file is a complete hand history for the tournament - showing every table, and all hole cards of every player.

Hand histories here: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...=0&fpart=1
Youtube video of hands being replayed here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FczbS7FiWSM

Quote:

Also, for the straight dope on how this we got to this point, check out N825024's blog at http://www.natarem.com/ .





7) In further analysis of the spreadsheet, Nat and Snagglepuss determine that the IP address, user number and email address of observers has been documented.

8) In 7, they determine that an account with user number 363 observes Potripper's table from 2 minutes into the tournament until the end.

9) At the start of the tournament, for the two hands that user #363 is not observing the table, Potripper folds preflop. He doesn't fold another hand pre-flop for 20minutes, when he open-folds with KK held by a player behind him.

10) They also discover another observer, with the same IP (in San Jose, Costa Rica), with a different user number and the email address scott@rivieraltd.com, observing another table for a short period of time.

11) It is speculated that the other observer could be Potripper's user account.

12) It was determined that the domain rivieraltd.com was pointing to a mail server which happened to be on an IP allocated to Absolute Entertainment SA, at Mohawk Internet Technologies' data center.

12.5) Shortly (within an hour or two) after the findings in 12 are posted here, the DNS information for rivieraltd.com is deleted.

13)The IP associated with the observer in #10 turns out to be a residential cable modem registered to Scott Tom, AP's President as of 2005.

14)Mason weighs in on things here:
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...age=0&vc=1

15)Absolute sends an email to one player saying they will undergo a formal audit from gamingassociates.com here:
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...ge=0&vc=1.
AP also claims Scott Tom has not been employed by AP for over a year, although its known that he was involved with AP as recently as 6 months ago, and may still be running the show from behind the scenes.

16) Steven D. Levitt posts about this story on his NY Times blog for the second time:
First post http://freakonomics.blogs.nytimes.co...-not-to-cheat/
New post http://freakonomics.blogs.nytimes.co...own-wide-open/

17) The Potripper account belongs to AJ Green, former Director of Operations at AP and Scott Tom's best friend. AJ Green is currently VP of operations at nine.com. AJ Green changed his name from Allan Grimard, and was involved in internat scams before AP.

18) The ABS Poker worker who sent the .xls file out no longer is employed by Absolute.

19) DanDruff speaks to a "senior" member of staff @ AP Dan Druff's 1st suggestion http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...umber=12545720

A lot of uproar and criticism followed this post from DD, xxxlink

DD's Next Idea http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...umber=12546896

Dan Druff's view http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...umber=12546433

21) Absolute agree to letting KGC audit/investigate them :

KGC Story
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...umber=12548190
http://www.kahnawake.com/gamingcommi...ry.asp?show=10


22) Mark Seif plays $1k tourney on Absolute and gets grilled by the rail...but then proceeds to still deny that tourney hands look suspicious and say that Dan Druff is likely to be sued for slander yadda yadda yadda...

23) Associated Press have picked up the story...http://www.ktvn.com/Global/story.asp?S=7229673

24) P5's Admin invited to ABS Poker offices in Costa Rica... Meeting doesn't go as people would have hoped as Absolute still denying a lot pretty much..but P5's possibly letting them off lightly when presented with a great opportunity.
Crossposted Summary
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...umber=12553493

25) AJ Green/Potripper on AP = FATRAISER on Stars
Scott Tom has account at Ultimate Bet under the name of 'PotChopper'

Potchoppers Non-cashes from the DB
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...umber=12554120

26) More Absolute Staff appearing to be 2+2 members :

Quote:

Josem :

I am reliably informed that:
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...&User=7262 = RUNNINONMT on UB
That player is Brent Beckley, another major player at AP

his email is brent@rivieraltd.com and from the montana group of people who run ap


Brent also runs the security department at AP.

27) Several other "suspicious" $500 MTT winners were listed but so far, nothing concrete on those, and probably just paranoia.

28) Dan Druff second call from AP was handled by a PR flak and was back to the usual stonewalling and lies.

Dan Druff's 2nd Call with AP
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...umber=12554163

29) Gambling911 picks up the story: http://www.gambling911.com/Absolute-Poker-101807.html

30) P5's gets a phone call saying AP will make a statment saying their system were compromised and they will provide details in a statment coming shortly.

http://www.pocketfives.com/18B87A4F-...9C725E0FA.aspx

--------- history in last thread ----------

31) The interwebs go wild with everyone patting themselves on the back. Many think AP will own up to everything and redeem themselves.

32) Now that both sides have made public statements and talked with news organizations, the story starts hitting the mass media.

"No management involved" story on Gambling911: http://www.gambling911.com/Absolute-Poker-101907.html
The 'geek' defense on MSN: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21381022/
ABC News coverage: http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/sto...500&page=1

33) While agreeing that the stories are all generally well written, posters immediately point out the holes in AP's story, noting it is ripped directly from the plot of recent big-screen blockbuster Live Free or Die Hard. Other posters point out that we might want to wait until the "official" statement, so as to avoid giving AP more information to concoct a believable cover story.

34) N 82 50 24 and Adanthar state that they have more information on AP, but will refrain (for now) from posting the drama bombs to avoid tipping their hand to AP, essentially allowing them to hang themselves with the rope they've been given. We're definitely playing a game of cat-and-mouse with AP now, and AP is losing.

35) A plea from NLfool:

Quote:
somebody please save all the previous releases from AP and their previous emails to AP players and post it another thread for clarity or the media. There have to be so many lies in it that the public should even be able to decipher.


AP has shown a willingness to try and make evidence disappear. Can someone catalog everything so that their lies are visible to all? Thanks.

36) Mark Seif agrees to have the HHs from his questionable session posted to clear up the issue. Mark and stuckinpgh have requested the HHs from AP.

37) More stories hitting.
Houston Chronicle: http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/fn/5225533.html
Cardplayer: http://www.cardplayer.com/poker-news...ecurity-breach

38) AP has started calling everyone in the POTRIPPER tournament and giving them $500 for accidentally releasing their personal information.
http://www.pocketfives.com/71799506-...BF161EF92.aspx

39) Nat talks to AP on the phone, and they said that they will clean up and go after the person (persons?) who are responsible..

Quote:
So the bottom line is that he said all of the right things and, if he's telling the truth, then I believe that AP will come out of this an improved and effective organization. If he's feeding me a pile of crap then we're right back where we've been for the last month.



40) As of Friday evening, cashouts from AP are still being processed.





Previous threads here:

We win?
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...umber=12566388

updated 10/18
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...umber=12554106

10/17
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...umber=12541923

An Inside Job
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...umber=12523924
  #2  
Old 10-20-2007, 07:26 PM
Das Budrick Das Budrick is offline
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Default Re: AP thread 87.1 - waiting on the statement ITT

great progress
  #3  
Old 10-20-2007, 07:31 PM
Redgrape Redgrape is offline
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Default Re: AP thread 87.1 - waiting on the statement ITT

so pretty much nothing has happened in 12 hours.
  #4  
Old 10-20-2007, 07:31 PM
adanthar adanthar is offline
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Default Re: AP thread 87.1 - waiting on the statement ITT

From the last thread:

[ QUOTE ]
Statement almost there - however this is getting completly out of control. HILT HILT TATUM IS COMPLETLEY UNCONECTED WITH THIS CASE - HE HAS NEVER BEEN THE CFO - HIS WIFE AND FAMILY ARE NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS INVESTIGATION - THE COMPANY IS TRYING TO DO THE RIGHT THING - I URGE YOU TO CONTACT THE MODS AND HAVE ALL PICTURES REMOVED - PLEASE TRY AND HELP THIS BEYOND THE CALL - AND THEY ARE AS INNOCENT AS ANYONE.

[/ QUOTE ]

As I said, I'm inclined to agree with this, mostly because we do not actually have much evidence on Oscar and I don't feel like contacting TxRedman to find their house is a good usage of resources that won't get anyone arrested for stalking. Also, keep in mind that enough people in poker know all these guys that their name is mud anyway and we can probably get more pictures whenever we feel like it. Having said that, let's temporarily move on to more important things, like camping my inbox for the statement.
  #5  
Old 10-20-2007, 07:32 PM
Cruzincat Cruzincat is offline
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Join Date: May 2004
Location: Maryland
Posts: 200
Default Re: AP thread 87.1 - waiting on the statement ITT

I think we pretty much confirmed that AP is watching the forum closly! [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]
  #6  
Old 10-20-2007, 07:33 PM
knoepke84 knoepke84 is offline
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Join Date: Oct 2007
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Default Re: AP thread 87.1 - waiting on the statement ITT

any update to the timeline for the release of that Absolute "statement"?
  #7  
Old 10-20-2007, 07:35 PM
JohnFR JohnFR is offline
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Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 642
Default Re: AP thread 87.1 - waiting on the statement ITT

Glad to see this still moving along, I wish we had a time table from AP. Would make the wait much less agonizing.
  #8  
Old 10-20-2007, 07:37 PM
bronx bomber bronx bomber is offline
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Default Re: AP thread 87.1 - waiting on the statement ITT

i thought the whole pic thing was retarded but that arrow seems to have struck a nerve with them. Why should AP care if some unconnected guy gets his pic put up on an internet forum? LOL at AP asking for help BTW
  #9  
Old 10-20-2007, 07:37 PM
Dan Druff Dan Druff is offline
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Default Re: AP thread 87.1 - waiting on the statement ITT

So let me get this straight...

AP lies to us for a month, gives the press a huge whopper of a story to print regarding a "rogue geek employee" hacking the system just to show he could, and continues to stonewall us after promising an official statement.

Now they say we should be kind enough to keep Oscar's name out of this, even after they lied in their last official statement, exonerating Scott Tom of any wrongdoing.

ATTENTION ABSOLUTE POKER: Come clean about what really happened and we will stop speculating about potentially uninvolved parties! Also, please note that the 2+2 community is very intelligent, so please come up with something better than "a geek who wanted to prove his manager wrong" if you really want to lie. Thanks.
  #10  
Old 10-20-2007, 07:38 PM
The 13th 4postle The 13th 4postle is offline
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Default Re: AP thread 87.1 - waiting on the statement ITT

So nobody has had a cashout from AP accepted since Friday? Is that what its saying.
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