(razz) Why do they bet here? What should I do?

[SGspecial]

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(he can't have crap in the hole and call you with an 8 door card on 3rd can he??)

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BWAHAHAHAHA!!! (Sorry, SG, just pullin' yer high stakes leg.) Um --yes he can have KK in the hole and call on 3rd. (That's the worst one I remember) I think you might not have played $1/2 for a while.

Your advice is perfect, of course. But seriously, on a Sunday night when these guys show up you've never seen before, they can have pretty much anything. But only Sunday nights, for some reason.

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Lol, yes my 1/2 expertise is a little rusty. Are you sure the maniacs were calling with KK in the hole, or raising? There are the bullying type who will go nuts with any door card 8 or better, but it's much rarer to find someone who will chase without at least 2 cards to an 8 or better. Obv if you do, take notes on the guy, play accordingly, and follow him around with a bucket.

[Praxising]

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Lol, yes my 1/2 expertise is a little rusty. Are you sure the maniacs were calling with KK in the hole, or raising? There are the bullying type who will go nuts with any door card 8 or better, but it's much rarer to find someone who will chase without at least 2 cards to an 8 or better. Obv if you do, take notes on the guy, play accordingly, and follow him around with a bucket.

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Some will call, raise, reraise, chase - especially at first. Any small card. I had this guy whose VPIP (HEY! I finally got PT for Stud!) was 84.6%. They believe Razz is all bluff and show, I think. They win a lot when they get cards. They lose a lot when they gets cards, also. It's always tempting to play loose against them. I watched Rusty make a small fortune off them last night.

As for following them around - didja ever have the worst luck of all time? I did, today and two players followed me to another table. Not good for the ego, but I'm sure they will find me again when I am NOT sitting in the Antarctic seat. Then I'll make some money.




If I don't go broke first........

[ChipsAhoya]

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Razz ($1/$2), Ante $0.20, Bring-In $0.25 (converter)

3rd Street - (1.40 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 3: xx xx K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___brings-in___folds
Seat 4: xx xx T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 5: xx xx 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 6: xx xx 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___folds
Hero: 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___completes
Seat 8: xx xx 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___calls

4th Street - (3.65 SB)

Hero: 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___???
Seat 8: xx xx 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___bets


Why on earth does he bet here? Because he thinks it's a pure steal? Should I raise to show I'm not FOS? What about 5th if I brick? If I check-call here I think I have to fold 5th if I brick, and I guess I should even if I raise here because it'll still only be like 2.5bb in the pot. But he could have total crap here and I'm drawing to a live, strong hand.

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You're right, it's a silly bet. The SW prompted him to bet (act first) so he bet since a Q<K obv. Don't compound the issue by making a silly raise. Riasing for ego doesn't usually get you very far, and declaring to him "My complete on 3rd wasn't FOS" only gives away information for a very thin value bet, and no fold equity. His hand is defined (he can't have crap in the hole and call you with an 8 door card on 3rd can he??), and yours is a complete mystery except your probably have KJxx or better.

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Hmm, is TT posting on SG's account?

I absolutely raise/(cap?) here most importantly because you can then take a free card if you choose on a later street since you're in position w/ the K up and you're a 54% favorite against 3 to an 8.

Also, this is $1/$2, so the villain will probably not be paying attention to gain much information as a result of your raise. Finally, it can be great for metagame down there because people will be "zOMG he raised w/ a K?????!!?!?!?!"

At the higher levels you would probably be betraying your hand by 3-betting, however, calling indicates you're not on a steal anyway and the value of being able to take a free card probably becomes more important.

I think raising here has more upside than downside (esp. this low), and I will not pass up on small edges; this isn't a tournament.

-ChipsAhoya

[SGspecial]

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Hmm, is TT posting on SG's account?

I absolutely raise/(cap?) here most importantly because you can then take a free card if you choose on a later street since you're in position w/ the K up and you're a 54% favorite against 3 to an 8.

Also, this is $1/$2, so the villain will probably not be paying attention to gain much information as a result of your raise. Finally, it can be great for metagame down there because people will be "zOMG he raised w/ a K?????!!?!?!?!"

At the higher levels you would probably be betraying your hand by 3-betting, however, calling indicates you're not on a steal anyway and the value of being able to take a free card probably becomes more important.

I think raising here has more upside than downside (esp. this low), and I will not pass up on small edges; this isn't a tournament.

-ChipsAhoya

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Ooooh low blow. I didn't say to fold on 4th did I? You have a small edge here, so without considering future sts then betting/raising is of course slightly +EV. We simply disagree on what's most valuable on future sts. I'm looking to keep the nature of my downcards a mystery rather than turning them face up. Maybe I can induce a bet on 5th that I can raise with a big draw.

You're looking for a free card later. What are you going to catch on 5th where you're going to get a free card when you need it?

[ChipsAhoya]

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You're looking for a free card later. What are you going to catch on 5th where you're going to get a free card when you need it?

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32A for your hidden pair.

-ChipsAhoya

[ChipsAhoya]

Also we could take a free showdown if desired.

-ChipsAhoya

[SGspecial]

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You're looking for a free card later. What are you going to catch on 5th where you're going to get a free card when you need it?

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32A for your hidden pair.

-ChipsAhoya

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Think this thru a little more. An A is not hidden, so only a 2 or 3 fits your criteria. That's only 6 outs to get into this spot. Plus, if you raised with a K up on 4th, what do you think villain will most likely put you on in the hole? Now do you think you get a free card when you catch a 2 or 3 unless he bricks mercilessly on 5th?

I'm all for thin value bets in cash games, but there is a lot of value in information.

[adanthar]

dude, it's 1/2, they don't notice or care.

if we're talking 5/10+, I can see the argument, but they're never doing anything except betting their board vs. yours.

[RustyBrooks]

I find this characterization of 1/2 and below ridiculous. There are lots of people playing 1/2 who have put in 10s of thousands of hands, read this board, and are not retarded.

[SGspecial]

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I find this characterization of 1/2 and below ridiculous. There are lots of people playing 1/2 who have put in 10s of thousands of hands, read this board, and are not retarded.

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It's been a while since I've played 1/2 but IIRC the level of play is dramatically better than 25c/50c. You won't fnid the best players there obv, but quite a few decent ones. As for the assertion that the typical players at 5/10+ are significantly better, I have one word for you:

Peony