Full Tilt PLO8 - $400...What To Do?

Omaha8sPoker · #1 08-15-2007, 01:44 PM

So I decided to take a shot at the $400 games on Full Tilt because I figured it was about time I stepped up from the $100 games to the $200s and $400s...

Seat 1: VILLIAN 1 ($319.50)
Seat 2: ($226.25)
Seat 3: ($156)
Seat 4: VILLIAN 2 ($165.80)
Seat 5: HERO ($488.15)
Seat 6 (SB): ($117.45)
Seat 7 (BB): ($354.80)
Seat 8: ($324.80)
Seat 9: ($180)
HERO is on the button.

Preflop:
Dealt to Hero [A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]]
SEAT 8 folds
SEAT 9 calls $4
VILLIAN 1 calls $4
SEAT 2 folds
SEAT 3 folds
VILLIAN 2 calls $4
HERO calls $4
SB calls $2
BB checks

I elected to just call on the button, thought about raising but figured I didn't want to bloat the pot with this hand preflop...

FLOP: Q [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

SB checks
BB checks
SEAT 9 checks
VILLIAN 1 bets $16
VILLIAN 2 calls $16
HERO calls $16
SB folds
BB folds
SEAT 9 calls $16

I thought I would peel on the button and see what came on the turn...I NOW REALIZE THAT IT WAS A REALLY BAD PLAY...No need to comment...

TURN: 2 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
VILLIAN 1 bets $40
VILLIAN 2 calls $40
HERO ?????

Well I pretty much caught Yathzee on the turn...VILLIAN 1 leads out with a weakish bet on the turn...On the flop he leads $16 into a $24 pot...Now with a pretty safeish turn card that couldn't have completed any draws he bets $40 into an $88 pot and we just get a call from VILLIAN 2...

I didn't have any specific reads on VILLIAN 1 or 2 as they both had just sat down at the table...Names don't really look familiar...

bbartlog · #2 08-15-2007, 02:03 PM

OK, I won't say anything about the flop call.

I think a flat call on the turn is probably the best move. A3xx for one of the other villains seems fairly unlikely, since A3xx should mostly fold the flop and A23xx should mostly have raised preflop. This suggests that the most likely situation is that both villains have high hands, in which case you want to keep both of them in the hand, since you don't have much chance at the high yourself. You could also fold if you're feeling cautious. Raising seems really bad.

Omaha8sPoker · #3 08-15-2007, 02:29 PM

Thanks bart...At the time I don't know what the hell was going on in my head, I was thinking "what the hell, I'm in position...If I don't hit hard I'll release..." Really bad thought...

I'll post more about the hand as I get more responses, but when I was reviewing my session that call made me chuckle...

niss · #4 08-15-2007, 02:31 PM

WTF is with this "not bloating the hand pre-flop" crap? You have a good hand on the button. It has a decent chance to be the best hand after the flop. Too many good things happen if you raise it up pre-flop. Make a big pot for yourself for when the hand hits. Just be disciplined enough to get rid of it on a flop like you got, if someone bets (obviously) -- or even better take the free card you're probably going to get. If you only raise AA2x or suited A23 hands on the button, people will catch on to you real quick and you won't get any action when you hit a big hand.

Omaha8sPoker · #5 08-15-2007, 02:35 PM

See Niss that's what I struggle with at the upper levels...I have probably gotten in the bad habit of raising with what people would consider "very marginal" or "just outright crap" hands when I'm in LP at the $100 level...It is so easy to outplay people after the flop in those games...So when I get to the higher limit games where people won't get run over I have a little trouble adjusting...Although I'm working on it and getting much better at my play preflop, which I think is my weakness at this point...

This hand the 8 really got me...That's the only reason I didn't raise...

Murakawa · #6 08-15-2007, 03:08 PM

I still struggle a lot with raising as well... is your question here really should you raise and try to take the pot on the turn or just hope you're not getting quartered and call down to the river? I think a raise will get called, so a call is fine.

Didn't you start in these forums like 4 months ago and now you're playing 400 PLO8?

nice

Omaha8sPoker · #7 08-15-2007, 03:13 PM

Thanks...

Wow I didn't even notice, but it was a year ago tomorrow I started on 2+2, but I had been playing PLO8 for about 4 months prior...

That is the question...Given the intial bettor backing off of his bet here to now just 1/2 the pot is a raise in order? The 2 didn't complete any straight or flush draws and we do have 2nd pair here...VILLIAN 1 has to have A3Qx to have us over the coals...I can't put him on A3 with a set because he should really try to make A3xxs pay here to draw at their flushes...And VILLIAN 2 just called so he can't have that strong of a hand...Can he? (I ask rhetorically)

Assani Fisher · #8 08-15-2007, 06:16 PM

[ QUOTE ]
So I decided to take a shot at the $400 games on Full Tilt because I figured it was about time I stepped up from the $100 games to the $200s and $400s

[/ QUOTE ]

No clue what your bankroll is, but why not just move up to $200 first and see how that goes. Moving up 4x your usual buy in seems crazy to me, not to mention that many of the regulars on this forum(i.e. good players) play at these stakes.

[ QUOTE ]
I elected to just call on the button, thought about raising but figured I didn't want to bloat the pot with this hand preflop...

[/ QUOTE ]
I think thats a fine play. You'll want to occassionally raise with hands like this just so people can't always put you on A2s, A23, or AA when you raise though. I'd say that I'd call 90-95% of the time here and raise 5-10% of the time.

[ QUOTE ]
I thought I would peel on the button and see what came on the turn...I NOW REALIZE THAT IT WAS A REALLY BAD PLAY...No need to comment...

[/ QUOTE ]
I won't comment on the play since you don't want me to, but I don't think you should ever turn down advice. Its possible that you may know its a bad play but not fully understand WHY its a bad play and could learn from the discussion.

[ QUOTE ]
Well I pretty much caught Yathzee on the turn

[/ QUOTE ] Not to harp on the flop call, but I think you see how it put you in a bad spot in that you hit your best card and still aren't in a dominating position.

[ QUOTE ]
TURN: 2
VILLIAN 1 bets $40
VILLIAN 2 calls $40
HERO ?????

[/ QUOTE ]
I really can't see the merits for anything but flat calling here(maybe I could see folding but thats a stretch).

To begin with, you aren't counterfeit proof. You don't want to get a ton of money in on the turn and then have an A or 3 come.

Secondly, its very possible that you're getting quartered here at the moment. However its also very possible that you're ahead of the other player with A3.

What you're hoping for here is that the high player misses whatever draw he has or doesn't improve. The best card for you would be an 8 or J obviously. Then you want to quarter the other player with A3.

However, there will obviously be times when you're quartered as well and you must keep the pot as low as possible or even fold under certain circumstances on the river.

In short, call and re-evaluate river.

Assani Fisher · #9 08-15-2007, 06:21 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks...

Wow I didn't even notice, but it was a year ago tomorrow I started on 2+2, but I had been playing PLO8 for about 4 months prior...

That is the question...Given the intial bettor backing off of his bet here to now just 1/2 the pot is a raise in order? The 2 didn't complete any straight or flush draws and we do have 2nd pair here...VILLIAN 1 has to have A3Qx to have us over the coals...I can't put him on A3 with a set because he should really try to make A3xxs pay here to draw at their flushes...And VILLIAN 2 just called so he can't have that strong of a hand...Can he? (I ask rhetorically)

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't take the $40 bet as a sign of weakness. Looks to me like he could be setting it up so that his river bet gets almost all his stack in the pot. If he has A3 and a good high hand then he definitely doesn't want to scare other A3 hands away.

He bet $16 on the flop and $40 on the turn....I really don't see the weakness that you do here, and I don't think you have enough of a hand to attack that "weakness."

Omaha8sPoker · #10 08-15-2007, 07:22 PM

I definitely have the roll to be playing the $400s and have played a decent amount in the $200s in the past...There weren't a lot of regulars on, so I decided to sit down and give it a shot...

I know why its a bad play, because the only card I can hit is the 2 to give myself the nuts in any direction...If I hit a club or a broadway card I still just have a drawing hand and it'll be hella expensive to draw to it...And my low wouldn't be to the nuts...