Tournament Razz Hand

[Andy B]

Last week I discovered that you can use Stars FPP to win tournament dollars. This from a $10+1 MTT. I believe that four tables are left. Two tables get paid.

Tournament - Razz - Level XII (750/1,500), Ante 150 (converter)

Seat 1: 3,678
Seat 2: 12,852
Seat 3: 12,179
Seat 4: 27,459
Seat 6: 7,905
Hero: 9,442

3rd Street - (1.20 SB)

Seat 1: xx xx Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 2: xx xx A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 3: xx xx 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___folds
Seat 4: xx xx 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]___raises___folds
Seat 6: xx xx 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___raises
Hero: 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___calls

4th Street - (6.50 SB)

Seat 6: xx xx 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___bets
Hero: 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]___calls

5th Street - (4.25 BB)

Seat 6: xx xx 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___bets___raises___calls 1005 and is all-in
Hero: 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]___raises___raises

6th Street - (11.92 BB)

Seat 6: xx xx 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]___all-in
Hero: 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

River - (11.92 BB)

Seat 6: xx xx 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] xx___all-in
Hero: 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

Total pot: (11.92 BB)

[ChipsAhoya]

Since this is a tournament I would not jam 5th. Vs. (6-6-5)97 (he obv. does not now have a 7 in the hole, at least I would hope...) You're only 51/49 and if you improve shortie will probably get it A/I anyway, esp. if he makes a 7 vs. your six.

I think 3rd and 4th are fine.

-ChipsAhoya

[adanthar]

I can't figure out if you mean this is a satellite or not (it matters somewhat) but either way I think I just fold third. In a tourney, they usually have the three card five they're repping, and all your cards are dead.

If I got past third, I'd just call fifth, not because your edge is thin or anything (it doesn't matter, it's an edge) but because he's got 3 and a half BB left so you may as well save the last bet when you miss/get it in when you hit.

[Andy B]

Sorry. This is not a satellite. It's a regular old MTT.

[*TT*]

Andy:

You have almost 63 antes left in your stack, don't gamble on third - this is a very easy fold. 3rd street weak tight play in a tournament gets you the money, wait till you dominate your opponents before getting your chips into the pot, you are at too great a disadvantage here - I might reconsider if it was just a completion, but facing a raise the action will be too strong.

Important Razz tournament fact - unlike blind games the antes are a theoretical constant and are generally a low price to pay, your in no rush!

Other than that, see Chips Ahoya's point - he is correct. (so is adanthar)

[Wetdog]

TT:

"Other than that, see Chips Ahoya's point - he is correct."
[ QUOTE ]
chips ahoya: I think 3rd and 4th are fine.

[/ QUOTE ]

"3rd street weak tight play in a tournament gets you the money"

Adanthar is an awesome tournament player. I doubt he plays weak tight to just get in the money. He said:

[ QUOTE ]
I'd just call fifth, not because your edge is thin or anything (it doesn't matter, it's an edge) but because he's got 3 and a half BB left so you may as well save the last bet when you miss/get it in when you hit.

[/ QUOTE ]


Andy:

It looks like you're ahead on 5th but just barely. His raise says he has a made 9 and you are somewhat statisticly ahead with 5 5 out, but you need to draw to beat it. I'd call to draw.

6th sucks. Likewise 7th. Nice try.

[betgo]

[ QUOTE ]
Andy:

You have almost 63 antes left in your stack, don't gamble on third - this is a very easy fold. 3rd street weak tight play in a tournament gets you the money, wait till you dominate your opponents before getting your chips into the pot, you are at too great a disadvantage here - I might reconsider if it was just a completion, but facing a raise the action will be too strong.

Important Razz tournament fact - unlike blind games the antes are a theoretical constant and are generally a low price to pay, your in no rush!

Other than that, see Chips Ahoya's point - he is correct. (so is adanthar)

[/ QUOTE ]
I would fold this hand on 3rd in a cash game. In a tournament, you have to play if you were shorter stacked, but here I fold. Villain reraised into a slew of wheel cards, which shows strength, and you cards are really dead.

Lol about playing weak/tight to cash. Cashing here is like $15. Sometimes at the final table, there are advantages to hanging on to move up in the money, but not at this point.

[mshalen]

In these types of low buyin MTTs it is common for people with a short stack to decide "I have a good starting hand and this is where I make a stand".

Of course this just raises the issue of how do you define a short stack in a Razz (or an even more difficult definition would be in a HORSE) MTT. I have yet to see anyone define and defend an M type concept for a limit MTT with antes. I know TT brought this issue up a few weeks ago. Any takers?

[betgo]

[ QUOTE ]
In these types of low buyin MTTs it is common for people with a short stack to decide "I have a good starting hand and this is where I make a stand".

Of course this just raises the issue of how do you define a short stack in a Razz (or an even more difficult definition would be in a HORSE) MTT. I have yet to see anyone define and defend an M type concept for a limit MTT with antes. I know TT brought this issue up a few weeks ago. Any takers?

[/ QUOTE ]
Here the antes plus bringin are 1300 7-handed, so you have an M of 7. I don't think that means you should go allin preflop.

If you have like an M of 3 though, you are getting pretty good pot odds, and it is often worth it to try to semibluff steal knowing you get the good pot odds if called and you increase your stack substantially if you steal.

[RubbishCards]

[ QUOTE ]
In these types of low buyin MTTs it is common for people with a short stack to decide "I have a good starting hand and this is where I make a stand".

Of course this just raises the issue of how do you define a short stack in a Razz (or an even more difficult definition would be in a HORSE) MTT. I have yet to see anyone define and defend an M type concept for a limit MTT with antes. I know TT brought this issue up a few weeks ago. Any takers?

[/ QUOTE ]
Well there is the 'L' concept in this LHE tournament advice post by CardSharpCook, which is basically a measure of how many hands you can afford to see to the river, which you'd need to adjust for the additional betting round and antes in stud.