PLO8 Making A Comeback?

[Mendacious]

From my perspective there are two approaches or signs of growth. One is growth from the bottom up...as in you will see a lot of $25 and $50 tables going. These players steadily migrate up and take shots and the low stakes games encourage players of all types to learn a new fun game. I don't really look at this much, but it doesn't seem to me that any sites have 6-10 of these tables going at once.

The other sign or mechanism would be that there are consistantly at least 1-2 higher stakes games ($1000 buy-in or higher) going at ALL times. These games attract high-rollers who may be lousy players-- which in turn pulls a lot of other high stakes players who know a juicy money making opportunity when they see it. They also draw a lot of the middle level players up-- which creates opportunities for better mid-level games. Lately these games are the exception rather than the rule.

Mostly what I see is a few new-comers playing in the regular 2-3 tables on Full-Tilt or Stars that are packed with die-hard players that have logged hundreds of thousands of hands-- quite a few of which are good high stakes players.

Since I don't think there is much EV at these middle limit tables most of the time, I don't see how the player base will expand from these games.

Just my .02

[Omaha8sPoker]

I would agree with most of what you said Mend...Stars sporadically has a lot of $50 buy-in games going...Actually yesterday there were quite a few $100 games going, I'd say about 6 tables of NLO8 and 4 tables of PLO8...

But I will agree with you on the regulars in the game...It was about a week ago I was playing on Tilt and one of the $100 tables I was playing at had 5 good players at it (not to have a big ego or anything, but I'm including myself in this group)...I was like WTF how the hell am I supposed to make any money from guys who are all on the same level as me?? I don't make my money beating up on them...I guess it's a good training ground for moving up to the $200-$400 games...But when you see guys like HOSSE, daveb, GASSS, etc. sitting $200-$400 it doesn't seem like such a great proposition as it did 14 months ago when you could get into those games and at least have a few people who were hold 'em players and didn't have a clue...I mean while I have the bankroll to move up now (and I would like to), I just see it as a lose-lose situation as there are still enough fish at the $100 level to beat up on...

I haven't seen the $1000 or $2000 game run in awhile on Stars, which is a shame...

There definitely needs to be an injection of liquidity into this game, but I just thought it was interesting that the PLO8 tourney was getting so much attention as I hadn't ever seen an online PLO8 tourney that big outside of the WCOOP or FTOPS...

[Kuso]

some observations:

- i think nlo8 has as much or more potential than plo8. this is mainly due to nlhe donks experimenting, trying to expand their game range, or get enough of a teaser rush to think they can beat a game that they don't really understand.

- i think nlo8 could actually turn into a decent live game once online poker finds more stable legal ground in the US and the player base can develop. i personally prefer plo8, but i think it's too hard for most casinos to find dealers who can handle keeping track of the pot size, maintaining side pots, and split pots accurately and quickly. i think keeping track of the pot size is the killer of this trio, but i could be mistaken.

- plo8 games at 100 and lower are at least as juicy as pre-frist if not moreso. there are certain times that the tables are bad (see the previous post), but i think these are the exception rather than the rule. for all the ex-party players, i hope you realize that party counted uncalled bets in the avg pot calculation, but ftp and stars don't.

- i see plenty of donators up to the 400 games on certain sites. this is based on results and on generally observing the level of play.

- some of the "regular" mid-stakes players have substantial leaks and many of them do not play a consistent game -- that is, some of the good players have GREAT a-games, but can often be induced into a spewing c-game.

- the 1000plo8 and 2000plo8 games at party didn't run ALL the time. it certainly ran pretty consistently thursday to sunday, but there were plenty of dead times.

- i don't think the 1k+ games will go regular again until the legal statuses of online poker and online transactions to poker sites become more stable. once this happens, online wallets will become easier to deal with, and the poker economy can flourish again. i personally think a lot of wealthy donators (in terms of poker) in developing countries were were taken out of the online poker economy by the frist-screwing -- that is, some of the people who "made" the games may have lost their ability to easily buy into them.

- many mid-high stakes players seemed to have either moved on in life or have started to play more live games due to the uigea. again, an online revival will draw them back.

- i'm not sure that there are 5 regular players at ftp 100plo8 who i consider to be consistently good. there a plenty of nut-peddlers, a few aggro players, and A LOT of donkeys. i can recall two players against whom i must "play poker" and vary my game, the rest are just plain easy to read and/or play against. there's a third who has a little bit of aggression but is mostly nitty who is a decent winning player... but he's easy to play against (give him minimal action). all that being said, i can certainly imagine a table that had 5 seats (or more) taken by players who are not significant donators -- my advice is to discover the joys of table selection.

- the <100 games will likely go far in forming a decent nlo8/plo8 ecology -- the problem is that it usually takes a while for grassroots ecologies to develop and flourish.

- the kids coming up now playing cards in the schoolyard and in home games will ensure a vibrant poker economy for quite a while. the only real issue is whether online poker gets disambiguated sooner or later.


... just my 2 cents.

[Omaha8sPoker]

I really LOATHE NLO8...But it seems to be what is constantly running on Stars, I should probably learn to play it...

Interesting take on the $100 PLO8 games at Tilt...I'm sure if you have logged a large amount of hours on there that we have played together and I am sure I am in your list...But I'm trying to figure out which one I am...I think I have a guess, but I'll keep it to myself...

Game selection, LOL...Never had to practice THAT before!

Also interesting overall take on the PLO8 games at the $100 level and below...I don't think they have gotten super tough, but they are definitely tougher than they were just at the end of 2006...

I have been talking to some people and they think that the games at the upper levels are actually easier to play in at times...I found that tonite, I was down about $170 in the $100 games, but up like $700 in the couple of $200 games I was playing...

I can only hope that the trees start to flourish so to speak...I'm not so optimistic about UIGEA being repealed in the near future...I REALLY hope I'm wrong, because with the money I'm making now I can't being to fathom how much more I would be making if Party/Dise/Intertops were still around...

[Kuso]

hhhmmm... you've narrowed down your range enough to where i think i can guess who you are. check your pm.

if you are who i think you are, then i think you're an aggro player who is too aggro. the best part is that i think you'll think i'm a donkey for saying that... heehaaawwww! regardless, you (or the player i think you are) play with a bunch of people who don't know how to handle aggression, so you make good bank.

from an equity perspective, some of the 100plo8 games have become a bit strange. that is, some of the players are really bad, and they'll get their money in thinking that they're equity is on one side (e.g., stupid end of a str8, baby flush, 3rd low, etc.), when in reality they are dominated one way and have much more equity the other (e.g., a janky low, TP on a low board, etc.). some of these people are so bad that they don't know where their equity is. the problem is that their stupidity is in just the right sweet spot so that they don't go totally broke at a rapid rate. this is both the beauty and the frustration of plo8, imho.