Once a cheater always a cheater.........

[SoloAJ]

I imagine there are a great number of cheaters who reform. The problem from the outside is that you have no way of knowing if they have reformed; there are no tell-tale signs. Because of this inability to distinguish between reformed cheaters and non-reformed ones, I simply assume the worst in such people.

I know of a couple who just recently married at age 22 and about a year ago he cheated on her with her best friend. Apparently he is "reformed" and she wants to be with him. EV on the divorce rate here has to be well over 90% in my estimation.

Anyway, I, like others in this thread, have gone through changes. I used to think that if the girl didn't love her boyfriend enough not to cheat on him, that it wasn't meant to be and no great crime if she cheats (assuming he finds out). Then he can at least dump her.

Unfortunately, life isn't so simple. I now think that cheating all around is scumbaggy. I would even say that a guy who knows a girl he is pursuing is taken is a scumbag if he KNOWS and cheats. If you pick a girl up and the next day a husband shows up with a bat and you had no idea, well thats just bad luck.

[PITTM]

i cheated in poker when i first started to play, i havent considered cheating since. I have never cheated on a girl and wouldnt. I cheated on homework and tests in high school, but didnt do it in college. Do i count as reformed?

[tdarko]

Solo,

You bring up some good points. One thing that I tend to believe is that if someone cheats on their significant other that the chances of them to be "reformed" with that particular person are very small. There is a reason you cheated on that person, you either disrespect them or you are at a point in your life where you don't think much of yourself and/or you and this person obviously aren't meant to be together.

But if you have cheated on a past gf but are in a new relationship I believe the chances of "reform" are better. This doesn't mean cheaters are on auto-stop b/c they move on to another woman, there are many factors that have to have been recognized for a change to occur but I think getting out of the no-win situation is the first step.

[El Diablo]

ads: "I have never cheated on a girl when I've been in a relationship, but I have slept with girls who were in relationships themselves. Am I bad?" That describes me as well.

wacki: I think there are two types of cheaters. There are some people who I think it's just in their nature. Then there are others who have a relationship, but really don't want one and the whole thing is really a sham. I've seen people in the second category change when they finally actually meet someone they want a real relationship with.

[Aloysius]

[ QUOTE ]
Solo,

You bring up some good points. One thing that I tend to believe is that if someone cheats on their significant other that the chances of them to be "reformed" with that particular person are very small. There is a reason you cheated on that person, you either disrespect them or you are at a point in your life where you don't think much of yourself and/or you and this person obviously aren't meant to be together.

[/ QUOTE ]

Completely agree with this. Which is why I think the phrase "once a cheater always a cheater" works in a particular relationship dynamic.

I also like how tdarko brings out the idea that alot of cheating is about your maturity level.

You could be with the perfect girl, but want to self-destruct, test the relationship, just have no impulse control, whatever. And so the timing isn't right for the relationship to work for you.

Contempt is one of the bigger drivers, from what I've seen, of a relationship falling apart. Cheating just underscores how much disrespect you have for your girlfriend.

-Al

[Colt McCoy]

I think a lot of guys cheat when they're younger because the only reason they're with her in the first place is to get laid. Obviously when another chance to get laid comes along, they take it. When they get a little older and priorities change, I think they can reform themselves.

Amongst mature adults I also think there's a difference between habitual cheaters and people that may have found themselves in a situation where they were probably emotionally vulnerable and made a decision that they feel badly about. I tend to think the latter can take responsibility and not do it again.

[By-Tor]

my reply from the oot thread...



I have never cheated and do not believe that I ever would.

Having been cheated on, I believe that "once a cheater, always a cheater" is 100% true.

Someone that has cheated in the past, "has it in them" and while they may not be currently cheating, when the opportunity comes in the future, they will have to decide if to cheat or not, where as the non-cheater has no decision to make.

The decision itself is a form of cheating when you really think about it.

[tdarko]

[ QUOTE ]
I have never cheated and do not believe that I ever would.

Having been cheated on, I believe that "once a cheater, always a cheater" is 100% true.

Someone that has cheated in the past, "has it in them" and while they may not be currently cheating, when the opportunity comes in the future, they will have to decide if to cheat or not, where as the non-cheater has no decision to make.

The decision itself is a form of cheating when you really think about it.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think I completely agree with this though I think this right some of the time, I just don't think life is this black and white.

For instance I cheated on my past gf and have been with my current gf for 3 years, I live away from her for 5 or so months out of every year and while gone have been hit on plenty of times and approached etc. Never once was it a decision, b/c it wasn't. I am not going to cheat on her, it isn't in me to do it and I am completely happy.

I have also been around plenty of people that haven't cheated before at bars and while they had some girl chatting them up all night they would keep telling me how their gf wouldn't ever know. They would agonize over the decision whether they should or shouldn't. Some made the right choice and then some didn't--becoming "cheaters." Some non-cheaters aren't happy in their relationships, or happy with where they are in their lives as well and are just as disrespectful and can just as easily cheat on their gf even if they haven't cheated on the past...what if in the past they have had solid relationships that just didn't work out for some reason? There are too many variables to just paint a black and white picture and classify humans with human emotions in everyday situations into two distinct categories.

[chopstick]

[ QUOTE ]

I have never cheated and do not believe that I ever would.

Having been cheated on, I believe that "once a cheater, always a cheater" is 100% true.

Someone that has cheated in the past, "has it in them" and while they may not be currently cheating, when the opportunity comes in the future, they will have to decide if to cheat or not, where as the non-cheater has no decision to make.

The decision itself is a form of cheating when you really think about it.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not really sure where to start here.

OK, I got it.

wtf.

Now that that's out of the way:

How does being cheated on create the once/always position? Because it happened multiple times? I'm curious how this makes sense to you.

What is "has it in them"? What is "it"? Some uncontrollable compulsion? When does "it" get in them, and how?

I want to address the "has no decision to make" and "the decision itself" arguments, but every time I start to write a response I feel like my brain is melting a little. It's like responding to a "Glutamate knits better catalytic converters than fireplaces do." statement. I just feel like I've been transplanted to some other universe where logic doesn't have any connection to reality. I'm guessing this is because the positions are emotionally-derived and driven, and poor old logic was pushed out of the car some number of miles back.

--

I've never cheated, nor do I think I ever would. I completely disagree with Bytor's arguments. People do change. It doesn't happen often, and it usually takes a significant life event (more often than not, with an extreme emotional component), but it's hardly impossible. I find that people that adhere to the once/always argument are usually either shortcutting behavioral analysis for their own purposes, or have some kind of emotional experience with the subject that affects their ability to approach it without bias.

And that's just regarding deliberate and/or non-compromised judgment cheating. The I-got-drunk-I-don't-believe-I-did-that cheating is a whole different ball of wax. While I do think people are responsible for their actions while under the influence of something that affects their judgment (assuming they voluntarily took it), that's still a completely different thing than the person who cheats because they are bored or want to get back at someone. The motivations do matter, especially when dealing with absolutist arguments like this one.

[By-Tor]

The 'has it in them' remark refers the some peoples inabilities to leave a relationship if they are unhappy rather then taking the easy way out and cheating, often times intentionally to 'force the others hand'.

The non-cheater leaves the relationship first, because they do not understand the concept of cheating. It is black & white wrong to them and the thought never crosses their mind.

The cheater thinks more selfishly and makes a on-the-fly decision. Yes, in many cases, such as TD above, that decision is made very early on in the relationship, but it is still a concious decision that has to be made in the cheaters mind.


(this is all IMO of course).