Andy B's 4000th Post: The Book Thread to End All Book Threads

[Andy B]

Reading West is far better than reading no book at all. While the example I cited above is absolutely terrible, most of his advice is at least reasonable. I just think that there is a better approach.

West gets hung up about "quality" and "non-quality" three-flushes. He advocates throwing away the non-quality three-flushes for a raise. If the hand is likely to be heads-up, I agree with him. In my experience, almost all of which is at the lower limits which West is addressing, you're going to have multi-way action even if it's raised on third street. If it's a six-way pot, I'd rather have 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] than K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. Since three-flushes are some of the most profitable hands in loose games, I can't endorse a book whose author goes out of his way to find reasons to fold them. If your cards are dead, yes, fold. If your cards are live, though, I'd need a very good reason to fold on third street. Having it raised in front of me usually isn't enough.

There's more but it's nap time.

[aaron7484]

some people have reviewed it on Amazon, here.

[greatwhite]

Yeah...I actually read those, but thanks. I wanted to see what 2+2ers had to say about this book. Andy B says Mason wasn't too fond of this book which makes me want to buy it less.

[SimonAllan]

Just thought I'd add my thoughts on this thread. I found the West book to be very helpful in teaching me to play pretty solid, winning stud. I think that it does what it says on the cover - it teaches people to beat low/middle limit stud games. It isn't designed to help people beat 15/30 and 20/40 games, but it is an effective way for people to learn the basics. I'm sure that there are mistakes in it, such as those mentioned earlier, and that people should move on to 7CSFAP, but it's a good start.

The Kammen book is similar, but with more obvious mistakes and inconsistencies. I don't have it to hand to find specific examples, but I thought that it was clearly inferior to the West book. According to prevailing opinion here, that must make it not very good at all.

[Brad22]

[ QUOTE ]
No matter what form of poker you play, even if it's nine-card blind baseball,

[/ QUOTE ]


Hahaha, thats awesome

[pipes]

Any comments on Championship Stud by Stern, Johnson, and McEvoy?

Mason rated the Stud section a 1, but gave Razz and Stud8b a 7 rating. Since there is not much material on Razz and Stud8b, this book may be worth adding to the list.

[stud7champ]

Just some comments

Roy west's book is great as a beginning book. Yes I agree there are a few minor issues such as you have mentioned. However his covereage of psychological aspects,mental preparation, bankroll and particularly hand examples (Which is all the vogue now) were ahead of their time (19I 96)

Reese's stud section I have always found to be the best concise intro to stud. In fact I think it is the best introductory book on stud and great for reference. I also found it interesting that Grrenstein relates that he found it to be the most useful.

SCSAP is to me the definitive theoretical work

Championship stud by Stern & Mcevoy is pretty good. With interesting sections on limiting your loss not win,Temptation hands (KQX spades etc.) Doorcard pairing discussion was long & detailed, Seventh st discussion was 5 long pages with plenty of details. Also another section covers Tournament Stud (One of the few books out there)

[CJC]

Hello All,

Andy has asked me to make some input on this subject, so here I go....

The poker books of all poker books is The Theory of Poker by Sklansky. It has been since its first publishing, and it still is today..

Now as far as Stud books go, there are only 2 I usually recommend.. and that depends on wether you or a beginner or expereinced player.

For beginners, I always tell people to read the Roy West book. Sure, some of his writings contradict each other, and some of the strategies are outdated.. but I can think of NO other book that is easier reading and more consice for the begining player. It is the first dedicated 7 stud book I ever bought, and I have made a dollar or two over the years. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

FOr the more experienced players, I recommend 7CSFAP ( 21st century edition ).. Although I am having issues with this book now, ONLY beacuse, there are SO FEW games left like the book is modeled for.. ( Tell me how many $15-30 stud games are left in this country.. That would actually be a good other thread.. hmmmm...... [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] )

CJ

[stud7champ]

See my commnets. Also the stud section is under rated. There are some detailed discussions of 7th St and pairing of opponents cards

[beset]

I'm too tired to go into much detail but this is my experience. I was a crappy stud player. I bought 7CS4AP and I got a little better (playing 1/2). I decided even though stud was the game I had the most experience with I was stagnated so I played hold em and other games for a while. Then, I discovered Roy Wests' book and it's discussion of 3rd street decisions, tempered by TOP and a re-reading of 7CS4AP helped me get to a point of feeling comfortable in any stud game 10/20 and down. Roy is obviously weak/tight in spots but I'd say it's analagous to Winning Low Limit Hold Em by Lee Jones. That book has helped a lot of players move up thru small stakes games up to big hold em games, regardless of some weak/tight thinking and passive advice. Wests book just helped me to think about the right things on 3rd street.

That being said if I was going to lock someone in a room with a party account and one poker book and then bet on whether they'd be able to teach themselves to beat a stud game or any other game for that matter it would be The Theory of Poker. It is the only indespensable poker book.