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View Poll Results: BBV's recommendation:
Do the sensible thing and move down.... 5/10 six-max, 10/20 six-max, 20/40 ring, 400 PLO8 5 25.00%
It's called a bankroll for a reason... keep playing the same games. 1 5.00%
Follow the Jedi way... 30/60 six-max, 50/100 six-max, 100/200 ring and 5000 PLO8 9 45.00%
BASTARD 5 25.00%
Voters: 20. You may not vote on this poll

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  #41  
Old 11-03-2007, 02:05 AM
Mr Rick Mr Rick is offline
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Default Re: ATo in BB - simple flop question

I agree. And I am not shy about betting the flop in general from SB or BB. In fact I like to C/R on occasion because there are sessions where it looks like I bet when I hit the flop and check when I don't...
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  #42  
Old 11-03-2007, 03:10 AM
MitchL MitchL is offline
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Default Re: ATo in BB - simple flop question

I think its fine to cr here at online fr. This will get bet a great majority of the time. Live is a different story, but with the right cast of characters it can be the right play.
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  #43  
Old 11-03-2007, 04:10 AM
emerson emerson is offline
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Default Re: ATo in BB - simple flop question

[ QUOTE ]
A friend and I were discussing this hand today.

Generic scenario - let's assume you've just sat down to a full ring table on Full Tilt.

You have A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] in the BB.
UTG+1 limps.
MP3 limps.
Button limps.
You check.

Flop is T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

What do you do and why?

[/ QUOTE ]

Not enough options given. You would like to check raise a late position bettor to make it two bets to others and knock them out. If the first player to your left bets then you are better off calling and donking the turn as those who called will then put another bet in, making the pot bigger and reducing their error of calling on the turn. By just calling you magnify their error by reducing their pot odds when you bet the turn.

This is online so you should have some stats. If one of the early players is aggressive I'd bet out on the flop and hope to get raised, knocking out the later players. If the early players have low aggression ratings and the late player is like 3.0, I'd go for the check raise.
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  #44  
Old 11-03-2007, 04:43 AM
elindauer elindauer is offline
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Default Re: ATo in BB - simple flop question

I check-raise every time and consider it virtually the only play in online games without a read that my opponents are very passive. I just don't see flops getting checked through often enough to pass on a chance to let them bluff at it.

Note that in a pot this small I'm really not very concerned about protecting my hand, so I'm happy to take a little risk if it means getting somebody to put in a small bet drawing very thin. It's a rare event that I lose the parlay of:

a) it gets checked through
b) somebody who would have folded catches to beat me

however, the event of someone betting who wouldn't have called happens all the time. Easy check IMO.

-eric
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  #45  
Old 11-03-2007, 05:22 AM
nineinchal nineinchal is offline
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Default Re: ATo in BB - simple flop question

Thanks for all the checking advice.

After considering all the profound analysis for checking with the intention of raising if there is a bet behind me; I still refuse to be the guy who checks top pair, and see it checked through behind me. I will never be that type of idiot, of which I have seen many, all losing players, make that slick move. Usually, I see it more often when they just slowplay AA, and then they show those losing AA to the table, by lifting that hand up to their forehead right next to the capital L...
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  #46  
Old 11-03-2007, 05:27 AM
MitchL MitchL is offline
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Default Re: ATo in BB - simple flop question

I honestly cant remember the last time I saw a flop get checked through in a multiway pot online.
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  #47  
Old 11-03-2007, 05:59 AM
Garland Garland is offline
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Default Re: ATo in BB - simple flop question

[ QUOTE ]
I honestly cant remember the last time I saw a flop get checked through in a multiway pot online.

[/ QUOTE ]

If this is true, then I'm check-raising 100%. If I'm just entering an online mid-stakes game for the first time in a year and it's my very first big blind hand, I'll bet/3-bet just to be sure (when it doubt, bet it out).

I don't play online anymore really, but when I did play mid-stakes full ring limit online a couple of years ago, I really couldn't remember the flop checking through multi-way then either.

Unfortunately, I think the mostly live players are drawing from their experiences playing with weak/passive opponents. And if they are good players, they will table select and find a table full of them, and then they'll be forced to bet their own hands. Unfortunately, you usually aren't as lucky online, and you'll have to adjust to opponents while still somewhat loose, are by and large aggressive.

This was my original complaint, but I admit that I expressed it horribly at first, and I tried to rectify and clarify what I meant. I hope I didn't offend anyone. If I did, I'm sorry. My intent was to say to the live players: "let the online players express their point of view", because I thought they would have a better perspective of the situation/landscape. Even I couldn't claim to give good accurate advice in online games.

I'm glad this thread has some progressive discussion. Live and online opponents play so differently that I almost think there should be two forums, one for online and one for live.

Garland
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  #48  
Old 11-03-2007, 06:12 AM
RossSi RossSi is offline
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Default Re: ATo in BB - simple flop question

I play mainly low limits (2/4 and 3/6) on Full Tilt and have played live 4/8 (just don't have a game in my area right now).

Betting out in this spot protects out hand against weak draws because we only offer 5-1. So that's fine and as has been discussed plenty, the default play - with the 3bet option if raised.

Online the c/r is an option because I would think the button bets in this situation 90+ % of the time. However I don't think we need to c/r to protect our hand because good draws aren't folding anyway and can normally call correctly.
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  #49  
Old 11-03-2007, 08:56 AM
vmacosta vmacosta is offline
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Default Re: ATo in BB - simple flop question

raise preflop. bet the flop, turn, and river. quit writing extremely long posts about an uncommon spot where equity difference btwn different lines is less than .1 bb.
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  #50  
Old 11-03-2007, 11:38 AM
Hielko Hielko is offline
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Default Re: ATo in BB - simple flop question

Rasing preflop is bad.
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