$25 PLO8: Wrap straight draw in bad shape?

MattS · #1 07-15-2006, 11:50 AM

Three people called a pot sized bet on the turn. Does anybody think I have enough live outs to call the turn?

Party Poker
Pot Limit Omaha Ring game
Blinds: $0.10/$0.25
9 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $14.85
UTG+1: $25.72
MP1: $25
MP2: $16.65
MP3: $25.48
CO: $23.15
Button: $25.10
Hero: $23.93
BB: $33.30

Pre-flop: (9 players) Hero is SB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, 3 folds, Button calls, Hero calls, BB checks.

Flop: J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] ($1.25, 5 players)
Hero bets $1.2, BB calls, UTG+1 raises to $2.4, MP1 calls, Button folds, Hero calls, BB calls.

Turn: 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ($10.85, 4 players)
Hero checks, BB bets $10.35, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, Hero ???

davebreal · #2 07-15-2006, 02:17 PM

Never draw to a straight when a flush draw is on the board.

Fiasco · #3 07-16-2006, 07:29 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Never draw to a straight when a flush draw is on the board.

[/ QUOTE ] This is overly simplistic and isnt always true, lets teach a man to fish.

How many outs do you have that will make your straight and not make a flush? two 8s, two 9s, 1 Q, 1 K, two aces = 8 outs, and 4 of these will make a low possible, so lets call it 6 outs. The Q and K wont make you the nuts, but were not gonna worry about that right now. With 6/44 cards left, Youd need better than 6:1 pot odds and youre only getting 4:1. Id throw in some added value from implied odds on quartering people when the low comes, or from making a bigger straight than someone, but you could lose a lot of money if a Q or K comes and someone makes the A high, so I dont think theres enough there to make this a call.

If you have an incredibly good handle on your opponents and will outplay them on the river (never pay off when youre beat and always get payed/not bluffed when youre winning) then this might be a call, its harder because youre in early position, so you dont know if a heart hurts you or not, or if Q or K makes someone a better hand.

MattS · #4 07-16-2006, 11:01 AM

Thank you for the detailed analysis. With hindsight I also prefer a fold on the turn. What do you think about my play on the flop?

Fiasco · #5 07-16-2006, 07:48 PM

Im not sure that I like potting it in first position. You could be up against a flopped straight, in which case It could be repotted, or you could be up against a flush draw or set, in which case youll get called and not know where you stand on the turn.

I would certainly pot this if checked to in later position, but Im not sure that I want to build a big pot just yet with it.

The min raise on the flop makes very little sense to me, yuo clearly need to call that. Im also very confused as to why the BB would flat call both of the flop bets and then pot the turn.