5/10 HU flop troubles

[TxRedMan]

[ QUOTE ]
PokerStars Game #8755481885: Omaha Pot Limit ($5/$10) - 2007/03/05 - 18:09:13 (ET)
Table 'Peitho V' 6-max Seat #5 is the button
Seat 1: BKiCe ($1078 in chips)
Seat 5: Kjalnot ($1080 in chips)
Kjalnot: posts small blind $5
BKiCe: posts big blind $10
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to BKiCe [Td 7d Ac 9c]
Kjalnot: raises $20 to $30
BKiCe: raises $60 to $90
Kjalnot: calls $60
*** FLOP *** [5s 3c Qc]
BKiCe: bets $140
Kjalnot: raises $450 to $590
BKiCe ???

this is more of a general question, i find myself in spots like this often when i three bet preflop heads up... what's the best line to take here? should i think about checking flop? it just seems like i get blown off so many draws in hands like this where i reraise preflop, flop a draw, get reraised where i feel i have no fold equity but at the same time aren't quite priced in. villain and i just started playing so i don't have much in the way of reads.

[/ QUOTE ]

this is a terrible 3-bet pre.

also, why are you betting this flop if you don't already know what you're going to do if you get raised?

start thinking one step ahead.

[Registrationtoo]

the way it was played, i push. i dont mind a 3 bet to change things up, but you said you were only a couple hands in, so i would try to get a feel for the game before 3 betting with a hand like that.

[Jason Strasser (strassa2)]

how can you fold here in the texture of any aggressive HU match? seems like you sigh and stick it in here just so your flop moves have some sort of merit. You cant be getting it in THAAAT bad here anyway.

[greywolf]

I just stick it in here. As a general rule whenever a play is marginal in omaha i go with the call/raise option rather than folding. This is because
1. I wan't to send the message to people that i don't like to fold esp. not in big pots.
2. I reckon i can handle losing big pots without going on tilt easier than my opponents.
3. It's more fun to gamble than folding [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

with 100BB i dont mind threebetting this kind of hand OOP if villain is the kind of guy to be raising close to all any four in position. there are both pros and cons as to threebetting this hand OOP, i dont see how it could be a terrible move though.

[BKiCe]

[ QUOTE ]
this is a terrible 3-bet pre.

also, why are you betting this flop if you don't already know what you're going to do if you get raised?

start thinking one step ahead.

[/ QUOTE ]

my question to you is, why are you replying to this thread saying "why are you making this move?" when i started the thread because i am unsure of what move i should be making. the entire crux of my question is "bet-folding this flop when i reraise preflop seems terrible, what can i do to to avoid this situation?" and you see fit to chime in with "why are you doing this if you're going to fold? you're terrible." thanks so much for your advice, but honestly, i came here so i could improve my plo game, not so i could read replies like the one you provided.

so basically the general consensus is stop three betting preflop in heads up plo without much stronger hands but as played bet-shove the flop?

[BKiCe]

[ QUOTE ]
how can you fold here in the texture of any aggressive HU match? seems like you sigh and stick it in here just so your flop moves have some sort of merit. You cant be getting it in THAAAT bad here anyway.

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strassa we just started playing heads up maybe 10 hands ago max, so i don't really have much in the way of reads and i couldn't really say that this was an aggressive HU match at this point. not sure how aggressive he gets on the flop or what kind of hand ranges he makes this raise with. i guess bottom line is the huge mistake in this hand was reraising preflop, but as played calling all in is less of a mistake than folding? especially cuz he could show up with a wrap/lower flush draw very often on this flop texture?

[CHAx]

BKICE-

I've played against you HU and 3-way several times. I notice you are light too often and you C-bet too often. Optimal play was to float most flops and re- evaluate turns.

Regarding your 3-bet OOP. I really dislike this play with your hand. Your hand is not coordinated enough - and no big pair.


Depending on opponent of course, a 3-bet is more useful with a coordinated hand and when the opponent is likely to believe you have a coordinated AA on a 3-bet. Against a tighter and nittier opponent I would like a 3-bet with 3456 or maybe 9987 or qqj10 DS A LOT better than w/ the hand you chose to go to 3-town with. I think you are getting yourself into trouble when you assume your FE is greater than it actually is.

[TheRempel]

Preflop 3 bet is fine with this kinda hand when used sparingly, but you do need to know when to check behind on the flop if your opponent is getting a little too aggro. I have no idea if that's the case in this situation, but if I am playing someone that is likely to c/r wide I will often take a free card on this kind of flop so I can at least have a pair to go with my NFD.

[RoundTower]

why does everyone not like 3 betting this kind of hand OOP? I would do it quite a lot.

What if we were playing the old Stars structure (forget where they use it now but some places probably) and you were the SB with this hand. Do you ever open for a raise? What if you were playing only 35BB deep, would you ever open for a raise? And if so how is that much different from this case assuming your opponent is raising a very wide range?

[grizy]

if the stack sizes were either bigger (say 1500) or smaller (say 700) I like the 3 bet. but 1000 makes it very awkard if you get raised on teh flop... like this hand shows. I mean, shoving here isn't THAT bad but I doubt it's positive EV, even with meta-game considerations (if there is no cap on rebuys, fine, but there is a 100bb cap)