Profitability of online games - A definitive answer.

[SinCityGuy]

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What I have noticed is that a lot of the fuel to this fire is coming from people who dont really know what games were like in the past, but continuously tell others that they have dried up and are barely if at all proftable.

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I don't play the Party 3/6 full any more, but my PT stats from 2003-2004 show an average table VP$IP of 38. This was with 20,000 to 30,000 "players" online at peak hours.

From various posts I've read in the past couple of months, the current table average VP$IP in these games is in the mid to low 20's, with 100,000 "players" online during peak hours.

[Vehn]

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<font color="red">The idea is that I only want replies from experienced posters with large sample sizes from both the so-called “golden era” of online poker (2004 and earlier) and the games in 2006. </font>

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the games are just as good as they were 2-3 years ago

[w_alloy]

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<font color="red">The idea is that I only want replies from experienced posters with large sample sizes from both the so-called “golden era” of online poker (2004 and earlier) and the games in 2006. </font>

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the games are just as good as they were 2-3 years ago

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While the games are still extremely beatable, this is simply not true. VPIP has fallen double digits across most limits while agression factors have increased .5-1 according to very reliable data over the past 3 years.

[Nate tha\\\' Great]

I think the games are somewhat worse than they were 12-36 months ago. On the other hand, there is a lot more game selection available at 20/40+ than there used to be (I imagine the same goes for comparable stakes at NL). As someone who only 3-4 tables and game-selects pretty carefully, I suspect that I haven't been affected as much as the 8-tabling automatons.

[4thstreetpete]

I think a lot of the people who are saying that the games are worse than a few years ago are the ones who are now playing higher limits. A LH 5/10 player from a few years ago would probably be a 30/60 player now and finding that they're not beating the games like they used to.
The games today are still very beatable.
I'm primarily a LH player but I've been playing a lot of NLHE, SNG's and Omaha hi/lo lately and I can't believe how soft these games are. There's lots of money to be made but a lot of people are unwilling to learn a new game and keep playing at higher limits until their edge becomes really small and wonder why they don't win anymore.

[Nottom]

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If a player is a 2BB/100 winner at WPEX with their tight tiny pot games he is a more then a +4BB/100 winner with ease at a loose site.

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Not at any limit worth playing. I'd love to see the stats from someone beating a 3/6 or higher game anywhere for more than 4BB/100 long term. I'm quite sure there are people beating WPEX for more than 2BB/100 (not me of course).

<font color="white"> Of course you also seem to make the invalid assumption that the games on WPEX are actually tight. </font>

[Pirc Defense]

I've been playing for roughly six years. It's funny because I haven't been to this site in ages, and I was mentioning to my wife earlier today how I just wasn't making the money I used to make playing.

After a learning curve, I was 3-tabling $3-$6 at Paradise for about three hours a night and consistently making &gt;1 BB hr. I quit because along came baby, and away went my free time. As I'm slowing starting to play a little here and there I've noticed that it seems there are less complete idiots at the tables, which also means I'm going to make less money.

I think the proliferation of poker literature, combined with the popularity of poker on tv has made the games much tougher. I suspect that if you are a very, very solid player you're still making money regularly. If like me you at least know the rules, have read the 2+2 books and aren't a flat-out idiot, it's quite possible you will be making &lt; 1 BB/hr, which isn't much fun at all.

[Sierra]

t

[inside??]

I think that another factor for a lot of people thinking games are harder today than a few years ago has to do with bonuses. A couple of years ago you could bang through a half dozen cryptos monthly making decend cash. Along with some of the bigger sites you could make easy money every month. Now those bonus are gone or much harder. For break even players that may be the difference between winning and losing.