LV Hilton closing poker room 10/17

[bav]

Yeah, I think the Hilton poker room closing will have about as much impact on poker on the strip as the closing of El Cortez poker room would. The folks who are playing at the Hilton will (mostly) not find somewhere else to play, and those that do will be few in number. Mostly it's just going to make life that much harder for wannabe poker dealers in Vegas as the Hilton dumps a pile of experienced dealers into the marketplace.

[malo]

Pretty easy to figure the places that just threw out a few poker tables on the casino floor--Trop, O'Sheas, Riviera--will be the first to go.

I've wondered a bit about Harrah's properties. Currently, they have a room in every poperty they own on the east side of the Strip (except the red-headed stepchild Bill's.) Do they feel a need to offer poker at every property because the operate the WSOP, or will they pull the plug on at least a couple of these places?

Something I noticed about the Strip casinos that were open three years ago: they all had reasonably accessable parking for locals. As much as tourists say they don't care to play with locals (and some locals don't care for the "locals" casinos) LV residents do seem to form the base on which poker room business is built, even on the Strip. And they don't seem to like lengthy hikes to the poker room (nor valeting to avoid the hikes.) Will this have any affect on places like MGM and Planet Hollywood, with their parking a fair distance from their rooms? Is there enough increased tourist business to sustain them? Believe MGM used to have a room, and closed it when the interest began to decline (late 90's/early 2000's). Would they do it again?

Then there is the possibility UIGEA will be overturned in the foreseeable future, and US gaming corporations moving into online gambling. The opportunities for cross-promotion between the two for poker are huge, and could spark another boom.

[malo]

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I know it seems odd but closing this room is actually good for Las Vegas poker.

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Yours is a minority opinion.

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I agree its the minority, however my opinion is shared by some very powerful people in poker such as our hosts here at 2+2. There have been some long and very interesting threads about the over-expansion of the Vegas poker market as well as what happened last time there was an over-expansion in this forum already, if someone can share the links I'm sure you would find the topic very interesting. Additionally I think Mason discussed the prior bust in one of his Poker Essays books.

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TT, I hear what you are saying, and please don't take this as me being snippy, but since when did casino/poker room management ever pay attention to people who know what they are talking about? I wish they would, but it's not their track record to do so.

Case in point: MM has written quite a bit about BBJPs and other assorted promotions being detrimental to the games. But darn near every room in town takes a JP drop of some sort. Some are using if for high hands, and if structured correctly, those may be the least detrimental type of promotion. They're catering to tourists, and the tourists like the possibility of winning these, even if the likelihood is slim. Some of these folks happily play 6/5 BJ, so math ain't their strong suit.

Would guess that the Bellegio and the Mirage get what you are saying, and we all know where Bellagio sits in the LV poker heap. Mirage may not have the status is used to, but seems to holding it's own in the face of a lot of competition.

[*TT*]

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TT, I hear what you are saying, and please don't take this as me being snippy, but since when did casino/poker room management ever pay attention to people who know what they are talking about? I wish they would, but it's not their track record to do so.

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Things are changing a bit, but in general I agree with you. With that said you would be surprised some of the conversations we have held this year however, management in a few rooms now realize that Mason wields a mighty strong pimp hand, he influences more poker players than any other resource besides television.

[NicksDad1970]

I can think of a couple reasons why a BBJ would hurt the game. Could someone paste a link on MM's take?

[malo]

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I can think of a couple reasons why a BBJ would hurt the game. Could someone paste a link on MM's take?

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The search function and I are fueding today. All I can find is this thread from January (it is lengthy.) MM posts about halfway through and reprints an article about what makes for a good poker room. (Think it is from one of the Poker Essays books.) Is is far too lengthy to cut and paste, and it addresses more than BBJPs. But an interesting and worthwhile read (might grab a cup of coffee before settling in to tackle this thread):

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showfl...part=2&vc=1

[Moneyline]

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There have been some long and very interesting threads about the over-expansion of the Vegas poker market as well as what happened last time there was an over-expansion in this forum already, if someone can share the links I'm sure you would find the topic very interesting

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I read those threads and I didn't find the arguments presented by those in favor of contraction to be compelling. I feel even more strongly about it now that some poker rooms are trying to get away with $5 rakes.

One thing that I would agree with you on is that I hope rooms owned by Harrah's close shop. The less presence Harrah's has in the LV poker world the better.

[psandman]

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There was so little action at the Hilton during its run that it makes absolutely no difference overall for poker if the room stays open or not.

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Every month they had a freeroll with 60-80 qualifiers (played at least 40 hours in the month. The action may not have seemed much but thats a minimum of 2400 player hours a month that can now be picked up by other card rooms.

[Moneyline]

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Also, would closings of a couple more of these smaller rooms like the Hilton have any chance of helping a room like the Venetian?

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I suspect that the locals who frequented the Hilton will siphon off to the other local rooms that offer similar freeroll promotions. As for the tourists who played there, I think they will likely either gamble on other games at the Hilton or trickle off to random north-strip and mid-strip poker rooms.

[malo]

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Things are changing a bit, but in general I agree with you. With that said you would be surprised some of the conversations we have held this year however, management in a few rooms now realize that Mason wields a mighty strong pimp hand, he influences more poker players than any other resource besides television.

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Better late than never! [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

There was something that struck me in the articles I read a few years ago (some of them dating back to the late 1990's.) It was the sense that casino poker was a "dying" game. Rooms closed because they felt demand would continue to dwindle.

Right now, casino poker isn't dying. The demand is normalizing, with the potential of steady, modest---although not spectacular-- growth over the next few years.

So it is on the rooms to figure out how to not only survive, but thrive, during this "normalizing." And the ones who do it well will be in the best position when the next "boom" occurs (when gaming corps enter into online gambling.)

If ever there was a time for poker/casino management to listen to folks who know what they are talking about, right now would be it, as I think the bulk of the contraction will occur in the next 12-18 months. (imho)