50NL - KK, WA/WB?

[MobbDeep]

Did I play this wrong?

All I know about villain is that he runs out of time alot and then posts blinds... (multitabling?) and he seems to be pretty tight.

Party Poker - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $0.25/$0.50 Blinds - 5 Players - (LegoPoker HH Converter)

SB: $139.64
Hero (BB): $113.09
UTG: $90.55
CO: $64.53
BTN: $32.32

Preflop: Hero is dealt K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 Players)
2 folds, BTN calls $0.50, SB calls $0.25, <font color="red">Hero raises to $2.50</font>, BTN folds, SB calls $2.00

Flop: ($5.50) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 Players)
SB checks, <font color="red">Hero bets $4.50</font>, <font color="red">SB raises to $12.00</font>, Hero calls $7.50

I figured this as a way ahead or way behind situation, so I just call.

Turn: ($29.50) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">SB bets $20.00</font>, Hero calls $20.00

Still looks like I'm WA/WB.

River: ($69.50) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 Players)
<font color="red">SB bets $40.00</font>, Hero calls $40.00

Tough one, but the way I played I have to call the riverbet, right?

Pot Size: $149.50 ($2 Rake)

[Nogatsira]

Yeah I guess you have to call it down the way the hand went. Maybe a reraise on the flop to see where you're at would have saved you alot of chips.

[TheRenaissance]

I like to raise more preflop OOP like this - my "rule" is one BB per limper + one for being oop. So I'd probably make it 3.5.

No big deal in this hand though, as you get position anyway. When SB cr the flop like that he either a) has a ten, b) has a Q, c) is semi-bluffing with the flush/str8 draw, or d) thinks you missed and is on a pure bluff.

You are pretty deep, so a tightish villain could probably talk himself into calling preflop with some hands that has a ten (T9s, JTs, T8s, maybe ATs). Hands that contain a queen seems less likely from this kind of player as he would probably raise AQ/KQ, and fold the rest to your raise (at least I think he should). A semibluff with a flush draw seems likely to me. A pure bluff seems unlikely, maybe on the flop, but I'd rule a bluff out after the turn.

When we look at the turn and river play, I find it very hard to believe a tightish villain would play any queen so strong (except QT duh). A ten seems very likely. A flushdraw is possible - I sometimes find myself caught up in these 3 barrel bluffs ("surely he cant call with one pair!").

But that is the problem when you get to the river: only hand that plays like this that you beat is a bluff. I fold river without a better read than "seems tight".

[relativity_x]

Folding kings is tough, but I think you can get away from it because there are only 2 hands that you're beating besides a bluff, and that would be aq/jj.

It sounds like villain is not the type to three barrel with air, so I can find a fold on the river because he's just taking you to value town.

Also, if you're going to continue in the hand, push the turn. Otherwise, I'd just fold on the turn.

[Chomp]

Good post Ren. Agree with most of that. Please post more.

My immediate reaction to river was: I really think/hope I could find a fold there. I think the rest is fine in line with Ren's logic.

[corsakh]

Mmm... I dont understand how does being "WA/WB" lead you into a call here. I am not saying its wrong in this situation, I am just saying its wrong in general. Deciding what to do, being "WA/WB" is completely irrelevant.

Say flop is 22Q and the action on the flop goes the same. You still are WA/WB but the only legitimate hands that a good tag can have that beat you are 22 and QQ. Now you decide if he is calling your 3bet with a hand like KQ/AQ or folding them. And how much of his range are these hands. Based on this you make a decision to raise, call or fold, not on being WA/WB.

As played fold river, its a clear ten, rarely KcJc or Jc9c.

[TheRenaissance]

[ QUOTE ]
Also, if you're going to continue in the hand, push the turn. Otherwise, I'd just fold on the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hmm, I see what you are saying but we have $100 left on the turn - seems a bit reckless to shove 200bb against a tightish villain on a paired board with one pair. Also, just folding seems weak as he could play a queen or flushdraw like this.

[MobbDeep]

I agree, I think it was the way he bet that made me think he was weak, he quickly called my raise preflop, and flop/turn/river bets were also made fast, I just didn't believe him for some weird reason...

It turned out that he was on a pure bluff with A4, maybe he watched when some other guy bluffed me out of some pots, but it doesn't seem like it cause he was folding out of time pretty much.

The deep stacks made me a little scared, maybe I should have reraised flop to see where I'm at. After I called the flop raise I don't like folding the turn cause he could be bluffing or have a queen.

[TheRenaissance]

Note that this isnt a clear cut WA/WB situation with this board - we are a not "way ahead" of draws in my book.

[relativity_x]

This is really bad. You were extremely lucky in this situation. There is nothing about this play that seems weak to me. If anything, you should have made your decision on the turn. I'd refrain from making calls like this in the future.