Man kills 2 People While 911 Is Telling Him Not To

[MuresanForMVP]

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A real american hero... Bernhard Goetz.

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Man we just love throwing that term "hero" around dont we? Bernard Goetz was a basketcase loser. Here's a quote: the intent was to "murder them, to hurt them, to make them suffer as much as possible." Some more: [ QUOTE ]
Goetz then immediately looked at the first two men to make sure they were "taken care of." Goetz then saw Cabey moving on the bench and confessed to approaching Cabey and saying, "You don't look too bad; here's another," and then attempted to shoot Cabey again in the stomach, with an empty gun. Cabey, who was briefly standing prior to the shooting, was sitting on the subway bench during all attempted shots. In his subsequent police statement, Goetz explained, "if I had had more [bullets], I would have shot them again, and again, and again."

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The guy was bailed out when the idiot muggers were interviewed by a magazine and admitted that they were going to mug him, thus he acted to prevent a commission of a felony and was within his legal rights. They say nothing and he goes away for a long time.


"Hey, can I have five dollars?"
Goetz (in his mind): "hmmm it's possible they're going to mug me...[censored] it!" *stands and fires 5 rounds from his .38 in 1.6 seconds*

Some hero

[starbird]

"Sir, if you leave your house, you are likely to be shot by the responding officers."

[BeerMoney]

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"Hey, can I have five dollars?"
Goetz (in his mind): "hmmm it's possible they're going to mug me...[censored] it!" *stands and fires 5 rounds from his .38 in 1.6 seconds*

Some hero

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Big difference between that and "Give me 5 dollars."

Ya, I feel really bad that those low life losers were wiped out. One of them went on to rape and sodomize someone. I suppose you're happy that person lived.

To be honest though, I always thought the case was more clearcut then presented on wikipedia. I think he acted on his instincts, and they happened to be right. I had always rememebered that he was threatened with the screwdrivers.. which he wasn't.

Also, why are those guys idiots for telling the truth about the case? Maybe they realize they deserved the bullet holes.

[MuresanForMVP]

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"Hey, can I have five dollars?"
Goetz (in his mind): "hmmm it's possible they're going to mug me...[censored] it!" *stands and fires 5 rounds from his .38 in 1.6 seconds*

Some hero

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Big difference between that and "Give me 5 dollars."

Ya, I feel really bad that those low life losers were wiped out. One of them went on to rape and sodomize someone. I suppose you're happy that person lived.

To be honest though, I always thought the case was more clearcut then presented on wikipedia. I think he acted on his instincts, and they happened to be right. I had always rememebered that he was threatened with the screwdrivers.. which he wasn't.

Also, why are those guys idiots for telling the truth about the case? Maybe they realize they deserved the bullet holes.

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One guy was paid like 50 bucks by a magazine and went off running his mouth. I think this "all scumbags deserve to die" view on the board is very disturbing, and I'm FAR FAR FAR away from a liberal who believes in strict gun control.

Yes, there is a difference between "give me 5 dollars" and "hey,can I have 5 dollars", but is that difference enough to warrant blasting away at somebody? Not in my mind.


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Ya, I feel really bad that those low life losers were wiped out. One of them went on to rape and sodomize someone. I suppose you're happy that person lived.

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Did I say this anywhere? Typical BS response. They were low-life criminals, Goetz was a homicidal nut-job who just HAPPENED to act within his legal limits. That's even debatable when taking this into account [ QUOTE ]
Preemptive self-defense, cases in which one kills another on suspicion that the victim might eventually become dangerous, is considered criminal, no matter how likely it is that one was right.

[/ QUOTE ] Btw, all 4 of the would-be muggers lived, did you even read the Wiki article?


The teenagers used the screwdrivers to steal quarters from video game machines, Goetz never once said they brandished the screwdrivers, he admitted to not even knowing they had them.

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I think he acted on his instincts, and they happened to be right.

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Exactly, he happened to be right. What if the kid just wanted 5 bucks? Goetz was a loser nutjob who pulled the trigger first, asked questions later, and the stars aligned in order for him to be acquitted. He was lucky for a number of reasons 1). They happened to have screwdrivers on them (which he admitted to not knowing) 2). One admitted they were going to mug him 3). His case came in the midst of a crime epidemic in New York City, where the public was fed up and much more likely to side with him, despite Goetz using excessive force given what had occurred up to that point in the incident 4). He only had 5 rounds in his gun. If he has a pistol with a 10 round magazine or even a 6 round revolver then he executes Cabey, and likely gets murder. He has more rounds and its reasonable that he goes around and offs each and every one of them. I mean just look at the quotes from this guy:


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Goetz, pretending not to hear them, asked Canty, "What did you say?" Canty calmly repeated, "Give me five dollars." Goetz admitted to police that he "snapped" and that his intention at that point was to "murder them, to hurt them, to make them suffer as much as possible."

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Goetz then immediately looked at the first two men to make sure they were "taken care of." Goetz then saw Cabey moving on the bench and confessed to approaching Cabey and saying, "You don't look too bad; here's another," and then attempted to shoot Cabey again in the stomach, with an empty gun.

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In his subsequent police statement, Goetz explained, "if I had had more [bullets], I would have shot them again, and again, and again."

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The world does not need more people like Bernard Goetz.

[MuresanForMVP]

Another couple of things: Goetz had been mugged two times previous to the subway incident, and had to brandish his (illegally concealed) firearm another 2 times. It seems like the subway incident was the last straw, so he decided he was fed up and began popping off rounds. Maybe it's somewhat understandable in light of that, but I still think his verdict was really botched.

[BeerMoney]

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Another couple of things: Goetz had been mugged two times previous to the subway incident, and had to brandish his (illegally concealed) firearm another 2 times. It seems like the subway incident was the last straw, so he decided he was fed up and began popping off rounds. Maybe it's somewhat understandable in light of that, but I still think his verdict was really botched.

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Dude, try not to take this internet stuff too seriously. I tried saying that his instincts happened to be right.. I'm glad they were. I'm glad those low life's got rounds pumped into them, but I think you'd probably agree with me that its probably a good thing that most people don't handle themselves the way goetz did..

On the other hand, what if goetz just draws his weapon and restrains them? Those kids probably get off with no time, and he goes away to jail..

[MuresanForMVP]

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Another couple of things: Goetz had been mugged two times previous to the subway incident, and had to brandish his (illegally concealed) firearm another 2 times. It seems like the subway incident was the last straw, so he decided he was fed up and began popping off rounds. Maybe it's somewhat understandable in light of that, but I still think his verdict was really botched.

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Dude, try not to take this internet stuff too seriously. I tried saying that his instincts happened to be right.. I'm glad they were. I'm glad those low life's got rounds pumped into them, but I think you'd probably agree with me that its probably a good thing that most people don't handle themselves the way goetz did..

On the other hand, what if goetz just draws his weapon and restrains them? Those kids probably get off with no time, and he goes away to jail..

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How am taking it seriously? We're debating. Let's not forget you called him an "american hero". I'm just trying to debate the legality of his actions. fwiw, if the 4 were convicted felon low-lifes (though only one was a convicted felon) and they got killed, then I don't think it's much of a loss at all, but I'm trying to look at things in terms of what is lawful, not necessarily "right" or "desired".

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On the other hand, what if goetz just draws his weapon and restrains them? Those kids probably get off with no time, and he goes away to jail..

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What would he get jail time for? Illegally concealed weapon? Unlikely he'd do time for that considering his circumstances. They probably wouldn't get much time, but I dont really agree that that makes it lawful to grease them. Make no mistake about it, if someone breaks into my house and threatens me, or my mom, or my brother, I'd have no qualms with putting 7.62mm of burning hot lead right through their skull, but the Goetz situation is not as clear cut as that. Which is why it's a good topic to debate. I was trying to think of his name the other day, thanks for reminding me