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#42
07-22-2007, 02:50 PM
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Re: U.S. businesses accept pesos. Immigration hawks go nuts.
[ QUOTE ]
Please stop imputing racism to other people with no basis. I have pointed out several reasons for opposition to illegal immigration that have nothing to do with xenophobia or racism. Is everyone who believes in anything less than completely open borders a racist? You'd probably cry foul if I accused you of hating poor people just because you're a capitalist, so don't pull the same garbage against other people. [/ QUOTE ] Why shouldn't everyone have the same opportunities that you do? Why are you so special just because of the place you were born? Listen, I think illegal immigration is wrong and should be stopped. But I think the easiest way to stop illegal immigration would be to make legal immigration much easier. I don't see why anyone should be denied entry into the country unless they are a criminal. To deny people to opportunity to pursue their dreams by coming to this country and working hard just because they weren't born here goes against the spirit of a freedom, capitalism, and democracy. As long as you are keeping criminals out, I can't see any reason why someone would oppose open borders other than xenophobia. You value people who were born in this country more than people who weren't. Isn't that basically the definition of xenophobia? 
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#43
07-22-2007, 02:58 PM
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Re: U.S. businesses accept pesos. Immigration hawks go nuts.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] Please stop imputing racism to other people with no basis. I have pointed out several reasons for opposition to illegal immigration that have nothing to do with xenophobia or racism. Is everyone who believes in anything less than completely open borders a racist? You'd probably cry foul if I accused you of hating poor people just because you're a capitalist, so don't pull the same garbage against other people. [/ QUOTE ] Why shouldn't everyone have the same opportunities that you do? Why are you so special just because of the place you were born? [/ QUOTE ] Why should rich children have opportunities that poor children don't have just because they were born to rich parents? Does the poor child have the right to move into the rich child's house?
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#44
07-22-2007, 03:18 PM
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Re: U.S. businesses accept pesos. Immigration hawks go nuts.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Please stop imputing racism to other people with no basis. I have pointed out several reasons for opposition to illegal immigration that have nothing to do with xenophobia or racism. Is everyone who believes in anything less than completely open borders a racist? You'd probably cry foul if I accused you of hating poor people just because you're a capitalist, so don't pull the same garbage against other people. [/ QUOTE ] Why shouldn't everyone have the same opportunities that you do? Why are you so special just because of the place you were born? [/ QUOTE ] Why should rich children have opportunities that poor children don't have just because they were born to rich parents? Does the poor child have the right to move into the rich child's house? [/ QUOTE ] I don't believe rich children should have opportunities that poor children don't. But I think you can at least make an argument in favor of economic inequality based on incentive and efficiency. I don't see how any argument against immigration can be based in anything other than xenophobia.
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#45
07-22-2007, 04:27 PM
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Re: U.S. businesses accept pesos. Immigration hawks go nuts.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] But uh, taking offense that their currency has value in this country? That's pretty bad. [/ QUOTE ] No his point is that the company is facillitating illegal immigration i.e. facillitating people breaking the law. [/ QUOTE ] That some of you foaming-at-the-mouth right-wing xenophobes on *this* forum want to try to claim that "facilitation of people breaking the law" is the source of even some of your indignation directed toward illegal immigration is so laughably ironic it doesn't deserve a response. I'm sure there are no less than hundreds of threads at 2p2 that involve "facilitating people breaking the law". But of course, threads which involve stealing or violation of copyrighted laws, circumventing local gambling prohibitions, celebrating illegal drug use, etc. apparently aren't worthy of our concern or scorn. But laws which stop the brown people from coming need to be treated with the utmost seriousness and deserve serious condemnation if broken. Riiiiiiiight. [/ QUOTE ] QFT How many of them get up in arms about radar detectors, car manufacturers who make cars that go above the speed limit (some, in fact almost all, significantly above it), fake ID's, people who purchase alcohol for minors or serve alcohol to minors at parties, etc, etc. When people compalin about someone 'facilitating a law being broken' and only do so on select matters their true colors shine through (even if it is subconscious on their part). I've said it before and will say it again: The argument "they are illegal, what part of illegal don't you understand?" really show the ridiculousness of the position. Can you imagine someone saying that about a murderer or a rapist "It is ILLEGAL, what part of illegal don't you understand?". No, of course not. And the reason is that there are actually valid reasons to be against murder and rape, no one has to grasp for excuses to be against those things "It's ILLEGAL!" Murder is not wrong because it is 'illegal'. Rape is not wrong because it is illegal. No one needs to make BS arguments against things that are really wrong, they simply state why the thing is wrong. If you need to fish for reasons or make technical arguments that should tell you something about the quality of your position.
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#46
07-22-2007, 04:35 PM
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Re: U.S. businesses accept pesos. Immigration hawks go nuts.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Please stop imputing racism to other people with no basis. I have pointed out several reasons for opposition to illegal immigration that have nothing to do with xenophobia or racism. Is everyone who believes in anything less than completely open borders a racist? You'd probably cry foul if I accused you of hating poor people just because you're a capitalist, so don't pull the same garbage against other people. [/ QUOTE ] Why shouldn't everyone have the same opportunities that you do? Why are you so special just because of the place you were born? [/ QUOTE ] Why should rich children have opportunities that poor children don't have just because they were born to rich parents? Does the poor child have the right to move into the rich child's house? [/ QUOTE ] I don't believe rich children should have opportunities that poor children don't. But I think you can at least make an argument in favor of economic inequality based on incentive and efficiency. I don't see how any argument against immigration can be based in anything other than xenophobia. [/ QUOTE ] I don't necessarily thing that the people who make those arguments are xenophobic (although I think a lot are, a good test is to see how well they mix socially with brown people and black people, many of them turn bright red and studder and stammer when put in a room full of black and/or brown people I have seen it first hand many times) I think a lot are simply brainwashed by the government (starting in grade school) to think that somehow they are special and more important that other people because they were born here. If you say your not xenophobic but get along well socially with brown and black people, (mix with them comfortably at work at a minimum) I would tend to believe it. If you say your not xenophobic but never interact with black or brown people outside of necessity, and turn into a stammering fool and your face turns bright red when put in a social situation with a lot of them, it raises some serious doubts. lol
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#47
07-22-2007, 05:03 PM
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Re: U.S. businesses accept pesos. Immigration hawks go nuts.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Please stop imputing racism to other people with no basis. I have pointed out several reasons for opposition to illegal immigration that have nothing to do with xenophobia or racism. Is everyone who believes in anything less than completely open borders a racist? You'd probably cry foul if I accused you of hating poor people just because you're a capitalist, so don't pull the same garbage against other people. [/ QUOTE ] Why shouldn't everyone have the same opportunities that you do? Why are you so special just because of the place you were born? [/ QUOTE ] Why should rich children have opportunities that poor children don't have just because they were born to rich parents? Does the poor child have the right to move into the rich child's house? [/ QUOTE ] The rich person has the right to exclude the poor child because he owns his house. The government does not own the US so it has no right to exclude people just as I don't have the right to exclude people from your property.
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