JJ - Overpair. Flop and Turn lines please. (50nl)

scallop · #1 09-26-2007, 12:59 PM

Villian is 23/18/2 over 134 hands.

I understand all the reasons for raising pf. I called because id say JJ was about the hardest hand to play OOP in a raised pot over the long run.

Full Tilt Poker - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $0.25/$0.50 Blinds - 6 Players - (LegoPoker Hand History Converter)

SB: $56.95
Hero (BB): $51.80
UTG: $49.20
MP: $31.95
CO: $35.00
BTN: $49.00

Preflop: Hero is dealt J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (6 Players)
UTG raises to $1.75, 4 folds, Hero calls $1.25

Flop: ($3.75) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 Players)
Hero... ?

How do you play the flop?

SB: $56.95
Hero (BB): $51.80
UTG: $49.20
MP: $31.95
CO: $35.00
BTN: $49.00

Preflop: Hero is dealt J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (6 Players)
UTG raises to $1.75, 4 folds, Hero calls $1.25

Flop: ($3.75) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 Players)
Hero...???

icanseeyourcards · #2 09-26-2007, 01:05 PM

Preflop: Hero is dealt J J (6 Players)
UTG raises to $1.75, 4 folds, Hero raises to $5

to avoid a situation like this

but as played bet 3$ or 3.50$ on the flop and fold vs action ...

scallop · #3 09-26-2007, 01:05 PM

People really hate street by street discussion. Shall we skip straight to results?

scallop · #4 09-26-2007, 01:08 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Preflop: Hero is dealt J J (6 Players)
UTG raises to $1.75, 4 folds, Hero raises to $5

to avoid a situation like this

but as played bet 3$ or 3.50$ on the flop and fold vs action ...

[/ QUOTE ]

Right. So you just fold if he raises. Just like that? HE always has QQ+/sets if he raises?

And I really dont wanna get ito the nitty gritty of pf. Siffice to say, If I reraise he can get me off the hand if he has AK (by pushing) and if the pot is large, and I have the worst of it I will call more.

1tripz1 · #5 09-26-2007, 01:31 PM

Even though i agree this is a hard hand to play OOP we still need to be raising it up. You are basically slowplaying it by just calling and this is not really the best spot, or hand, to do it with. Id much rather make it $6 preflop and then play this flop hard. Defining our hand here makes its easier to define his hand and help to play OOP imo, here we are disguising out hand and making it v tricky.

So yeah, unless you want to fold this preflop then its always a raise.

Perk76 · #6 09-26-2007, 01:35 PM

Scallop,

This is one of the boards that I kinda like c/c the flop and lead the turn almost regardless.

If you bet the flop it will be raised with ATC by alot of villans and you will still be not sure where you stand.

If you c/r the flop you may get pushed on by AK/AQ of hearts as well as AA/KK/QQ.

I think I c/c the flop and lead most turns.

Poker's Busmalis · #7 09-26-2007, 01:38 PM

Yup I'd raise pf, and as played, agree with Perk.

scallop · #8 09-26-2007, 07:47 PM

Full Tilt Poker - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $0.25/$0.50 Blinds - 6 Players - (LegoPoker Hand History Converter)

SB: $56.95
Hero (BB): $51.80
UTG: $49.20
MP: $31.95
CO: $35.00
BTN: $49.00

Preflop: Hero is dealt J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (6 Players)
UTG raises to $1.75, 4 folds, Hero calls $1.25

Flop: ($3.75) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 Players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $3.00, Hero raises to $11.00, UTG calls $8.00

Turn: ($25.75) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 Players)
Hero

Ok. I check raised the flop because I thought it was the move that defined the hand pretty well considering I flat called preflop
I figured I could make it 11 and easily fold to a push, because a push is almost always QQ+/sets/A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (Or other such massive draw) and I'm not making a big mistake by not flipping with these hands considering my equity vs QQ+ and sets.

Whats your line on the turn?

Trogdor! · #9 09-26-2007, 08:03 PM

scallop, against a 23/18 we have to 3-bet it preflop because we are ahead alot of the time but against someone with a lower pfr then i agree with the call

on the flop i agree with perk on c/c as what hands are we trapping here? TT? A9? maybe

as played you have to run with it now as i hope you didn't c/r that flop only to check that turn? bet ~18

scallop · #10 09-26-2007, 08:15 PM

My thinking was that he probablly pushes the flop with almost all the hands that we are beaten vs, because they will all be worried about the hearts, and also the hearts shove because they might (or do have) fold equity.

I thought that checking He might push air, which was was in fact what happened - A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]Qclub:

But I now think that a bet on the turn (and call a push) is a far better line because I dont want any tough decisions really. I guess This is too tricky a board to get tricky on and try and catch bluffs, although I though that and weak pair hands had become a lrge part of his range.

Full Tilt Poker - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $0.25/$0.50 Blinds - 6 Players - (LegoPoker Hand History Converter)

SB: $56.95
Hero (BB): $51.80
UTG: $49.20
MP: $31.95
CO: $35.00
BTN: $49.00

Preflop: Hero is dealt J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (6 Players)
UTG raises to $1.75, 4 folds, Hero calls $1.25

Flop: ($3.75) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 Players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $3.00, Hero raises to $11.00, UTG calls $8.00

Turn: ($25.75) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 Players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $25.75, Hero raises all-in to $39.05, UTG calls all-in for $10.70
Uncalled bet of $2.60 returned to Hero
Uncalled bet of $0.00 returned to UTG

River: ($98.65) 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 Players - 2 All-In)

Pot Size: $98.65 ($3 Rake)

UTG had A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (a pair of Twos) and LOST (-$49.20)
Hero had J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (two pair, Jacks and Twos) and LOST (-$49.20)