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#1
10-11-2007, 09:53 PM
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CA full drop - no pot
I am a dealer that works at one of the local casinos and have come across something that is both annoying and upsetting to both me and the players.
It is when on a full game (7 or more players) and two players (SB calls the $2 BB and the BB checks) that leaves $4 in the pot. Well, as the dealer I put out the flop and take the drop. In this case its a $1 JP and $3 rake and Im sure you can figure out what is left in the pot on for betting on the flop. Thats right, a BIG FAT ZERO dollars in the middle. Usually this is then checked all the way to the river where the only thing the winner gets is the satisfaction that he/she is the winner of nothing but bragging rights... which in a game about making money amounts to zilch. I then have to explain to the entire table to not shoot the messenger and that I am required to do this by the casino and if I dont I then get in trouble (which I definitely dont want). I wish there was a way around this as I can not mention "hey you realize that by not chopping you guys will be playing for less than nothing on the flop" as once again I would get in trouble. Over the last two days two different players have told me that "legally they can not receive less money than they put in on a chopped pot" but I am not sure if this is true. Also some places in LA also to a staggered rake on the flop and then again on the river. I would really like to see either one of these practices put into place since I believe it hurts the game to have no money in the pot. 
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#5
10-12-2007, 03:08 AM
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Re: CA full drop - no pot
[ QUOTE ]
I am a dealer that works at one of the local casinos and have come across something that is both annoying and upsetting to both me and the players. It is when on a full game (7 or more players) and two players (SB calls the $2 BB and the BB checks) that leaves $4 in the pot. Well, as the dealer I put out the flop and take the drop. In this case its a $1 JP and $3 rake and Im sure you can figure out what is left in the pot on for betting on the flop. Thats right, a BIG FAT ZERO dollars in the middle. Usually this is then checked all the way to the river where the only thing the winner gets is the satisfaction that he/she is the winner of nothing but bragging rights... which in a game about making money amounts to zilch. I then have to explain to the entire table to not shoot the messenger and that I am required to do this by the casino and if I dont I then get in trouble (which I definitely dont want). I wish there was a way around this as I can not mention "hey you realize that by not chopping you guys will be playing for less than nothing on the flop" as once again I would get in trouble. Over the last two days two different players have told me that "legally they can not receive less money than they put in on a chopped pot" but I am not sure if this is true. Also some places in LA also to a staggered rake on the flop and then again on the river. I would really like to see either one of these practices put into place since I believe it hurts the game to have no money in the pot. [/ QUOTE ] Since you're the person who bumped my old "Dealer Stall" story I'll put in a thought or two here [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]. As others mentioned elsewhere in this thread most people understand that you have to chop blinds in the smallish games - especially when the total drop on flop approaches or equals the amount of the blinds. Even then the LA clubs will take $1 on no flop (the fifty cents on no flop I was able to help get instituted at the Bike only lasted a couple years; even then I was only able to get it approved for top section). Since you work at CP aka Crystal Park (you gave this away in the "Dealer Stall" thread so the secret is out [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]) I'd like to ask the following questions: 1. Is management now making the props not chop in a pot with no action? 2. In a 1-2, 1-3 or 2-3 blind game with one limper (hopefully an early position limper - late position open limpers in small games should be shot on sight in LA) does the club allow (or at least look the other way) if the players agree to chop and take back their money (with the SB paying the "modified/adjusted/no flop" drop)? 3. Are three parenthetical expressions in one sentence (see 2. above) a world record, a personal Rick Nebiolo record or just another example of my bad grammar? ~ Rick PS If answering any of the above infringes on your "job security" I'll understand if you don't answer [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
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#6
10-13-2007, 01:23 AM
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Re: CA full drop - no pot
Rick,
I know, my bad for mentioning where I work but cant correct past mistakes right? 1) The props are not supposed to suggest a chop if a live player calls (if two props are the only limpers then they most likely will chop). I think it basicly means that the casino wants the full drop which we all agree is what it is there for. To make as much money as possible. 2) The answer is yes on all accounts. if there is only one limper, the SB folds and the BB and the limper agree to chop then yes the casino does look the other way. The exception is as I stated above where the props are supposed to play as long as there is a live player in the pot. Otherwise the BB is supposed to "raise" and then everyone throws in their cards and we continue to the next hand with the modified drop. 3) I have no clue what parenthetical expressions are and for that matter I had a major issue even reading that sentence. So yeh... Hope that helps. As for EOF I completely agree but I have been instructed by a couple of people that as the dealer I am not allowed to suggest such even though I think it protects the players in the game (and happy players tip more... hopefully).
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#7
10-13-2007, 04:55 AM
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Re: CA full drop - no pot
[ QUOTE ]
I know, my bad for mentioning where I work but cant correct past mistakes right? [/ QUOTE ] I wouldn't worry about CP management checking up on this forum. [ QUOTE ] 1) The props are not supposed to suggest a chop if a live player calls (if two props are the only limpers then they most likely will chop). I think it basicly means that the casino wants the full drop which we all agree is what it is there for. To make as much money as possible. [/ QUOTE ] Most real customers eventually figure out who the props are. And when real customers routinely see virtually the entire pot dropped with little action they usually never return, especially if the props aren't supporting drop avoidance techniques that most regulars understand. If CP wants to make more money they might try to consider becoming innovators in collection technique. OTOH, I'd hate to see CP as a proving ground for any of my drop ideas; it's sort the opposite of getting a head start. [ QUOTE ] 2) The answer is yes on all accounts. if there is only one limper, the SB folds and the BB and the limper agree to chop then yes the casino does look the other way. The exception is as I stated above where the props are supposed to play as long as there is a live player in the pot. Otherwise the BB is supposed to "raise" and then everyone throws in their cards and we continue to the next hand with the modified drop. [/ QUOTE ] Let's say the live player is the early open limper (early open limpers are OK and don't need to be shot, they expected more action when they limped) and initiates the collection avoidance technique. Wouldn't the props go along then? [ QUOTE ] 3) I have no clue what parenthetical expressions are and for that matter I had a major issue even reading that sentence. So yeh... [/ QUOTE ] I reread my sentence and took the parenthetical expressions out (meaning everything enclosed in "()") and it should have read as a complete sentence but didn't. So my grammar really is atrocious (even if I took out the parenthetical expressions like this one). ~ Rick
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#8
10-13-2007, 11:24 AM
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Re: CA full drop - no pot
Blue,
By your post, you do not deal at either the Hustler or the Bike. I like to play low limit so here is how these clubs do it. Hustler has the best policy, until a bet is called post flop, they only drop 1 for the jackpot and 1 for the drop. They then take the full 3 after the first called baet. The bike in any game they spread, will never have a winner loose money in the pot. So in the above case, the floor will refund the winner's two or three bucks that would of been dropped. I have seen it in limit and the 2/3 NL games. I believe the dealers have the authority to refund at the Bike, Hustler, for NL games also will allow it, but you have to call the floor for authorization. Talk to your DC about this, they may have some unwritten policy rules not to piss off the bread and butter low limit players.
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#9
10-13-2007, 02:25 PM
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Re: CA full drop - no pot
[ QUOTE ]
Hustler has the best policy, until a bet is called post flop, they only drop 1 for the jackpot and 1 for the drop. They then take the full 3 after the first called baet. [/ QUOTE ] Is this for all games or only for limit games let's say 6/12 and below. Do they drop a jackpot drop on no flop? Even if they take more (all clubs will eventually take more in an inflationary environment and 6/12 will become the "new 3/6") this is a step in the right direction. Now if they would weld sliders to the bottom of the chair legs I'd go there more often. [ QUOTE ] The bike in any game they spread, will never have a winner loose money in the pot. So in the above case, the floor will refund the winner's two or three bucks that would of been dropped. I have seen it in limit and the 2/3 NL games. [/ QUOTE ] They may not lose money but they can certainly bet/win a pot and see their stack no bigger than before. ~ Rick
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#10
10-13-2007, 04:23 PM
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Re: CA full drop - no pot
This is correct. As Rick pointed out I work for CPCH (now CCH). I wish I could go to my DC or even my floor the only problem is that we dont have poker floormen at CCH. It really sucks.
Rick to answer your question the props will go along with the chop as long as the SB folds and the live player brings it up.
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