77 Concept Post

[Bulletproof Monk]

Just something i found in today's session i would like to discuss.

UTG ($150) is a reasonably tight player, no strong read. guessing fairly straight up, nothing out of the ordinary.
SB ($50) is a loose passive fish.

Hero ($110) is in the BB with 77

6max, .5/1NL

Preflop: UTG raises to $3, 3 folds, SB calls, hero calls.

Flop: 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

SB checks, Hero checks, UTG bets $6, SB calls, Hero ?

[cs3]

not sure what the question is?

but calling sucks. either ch/r or fold. and with 2 guys in the hand still im leaning towards fold even though you sometimes fold the best hand

[Bulletproof Monk]

my question is basically whether the call by SB makes a call here correct due to the likelihood of the turn getting checked through by all 3 players

[cs3]

no, the call by sb makes calling terrible for hero.

you hate like every single turn card, and must fold to any non-7 turn. not likely for the turn to get checked around, and even if its does youre almsot never good by the river

[hellmuth88]

@cs3
why does calling sucks?? you probably have the best hand. So why not call , and play a blank turn strongly? also you gain allot of knowledge about UTG's hand on the turn, since there is a shortstacked fish in the pot involved, so you probably never gonna be bluffed in this spot.

[cs3]

it sucks becasue you cant be sure your hand is even good now and any turn card is bad - more than 2/3 of the deck is either an overcard or can make someone a flush so there really are no "blank" turns.

and even if the turn is like the 2d, are we comfortable playing for stacks vs the shorty? because if you bet strong and he ch/rai you have to call likely way behind.

and if you bet strong and UTG raises you have to fold.

[hellmuth88]

i know that there arent many blank turn cards, but in this spot i cant see UTG bluffing a scarecard on the turn in a 3 way pot with a shortstacked fish. so you probably will have a very cheap showdown when you have the best hand (which i expect to have most of the times)

i think folding or checkraising are both worser options IMO...
folding seems to weak unless UTG is a super tight opener. and checkraising just turns your hand into a bluff.

[cs3]

[ QUOTE ]
checkraising just turns your hand into a bluff.

[/ QUOTE ]
thats exactly the point and it would be perfectly fine to do so here (the part about turning 77 into a bluff, not neccessarily usuing that line in this spot)

this is not like one of those times where guys say "hey ZOMG! dont raise AA in spot XYZ cuz youre turning it into a bluff!!)

[dreamcircus]

Calling is worst option.. either raise or fold. Fold is decent if UTG's fairly tight. 2 players x the possibility of 8, higher pockets, flush draw, or AK AQ AJ etc that could catch turn card and have you beat.

If 2-handed, raise flop. 3-handed fold is decent.. if not then raise.

[Bulletproof Monk]

[ QUOTE ]
it sucks becasue you cant be sure your hand is even good now and any turn card is bad.

[/ QUOTE ]

given pot odds our hand doesnt need to be good that often.

and we arent committing ourselves to calling further bets by calling this one, the upside is that most turn cards are fairly easily evaluatable given player actions

[ QUOTE ]
no, the call by sb makes calling terrible for hero.

you hate like every single turn card, and must fold to any non-7 turn. not likely for the turn to get checked around, and even if its does youre almsot never good by the river

[/ QUOTE ]

what hands do you think UTG will 2nd barrel here? honestly i think the turn gets checked around at least 60%