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#61
08-19-2007, 02:41 AM
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Re: Spots we rarely think about
Sorry it's taken me so long to get back to this thread. There was some good stuff so I didn't want to ignore it, but I've been at TS and really sleepy whenever I get back to my room. So:
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] In <u>NLH:BB</u> I classify this as both a type 5 flop and also a check under the guise of equity advantage. [/ QUOTE ] Alright, I have to ask this, what's NLH:BB? I searched... [/ QUOTE ] Tentative title for the book. [ QUOTE ] The major difference you and I have in this spot is that you say, 'yay lets play poker here' and I say, 'I would like to do everything in my power not to play poker here'. As you pointed out, 22 more often then not has less equity then a 'losing hand'. So this is a spot where I gain more out of the times he folds to a c-bet then when I let a card peel and either get outdrawn or outplayed (bluffed) on the turn. Depending upon the caliber of player, you will win this hand on the flop enough to show a profit in the hand [/ QUOTE ] So basically you are saying w/ any two cards (since technically the cbet is a semibluff with a bit of showdown value which is not to be ignored) will show a profit? If so, I disagree (why I check, bc I feel the EV of checking ~0, the EV of a bet slightly -EV, but possibly 0, however builds the pot to the extent the turn action will be a > -EV play then if the pot was not built by the flop bet). [ QUOTE ] Overall, I think this spot is marginal either way, meaning one won't show a glaring profit/loss over the other. [/ QUOTE ] Although I agree it is marginal, checking is still the play; esp. in a HU battle (applies moreso to limit but it's all the same) any edge is one you should take. [ QUOTE ] 1/2. Balancing is EXTREMELY important. You don't have to be facing a world beater for him to realize every time you're checking behind on a wet board, it's with a mediocre hand you just want to showdown. He can easily then valuebet you to death, or just draw cheaply depending on his holdings. [/ QUOTE ] As long as we have position and know he's trying to take advantage of this, this is fine with me. [ QUOTE ] to the checkers: if we check here....are we folding to a turn lead? I guess this depends on the turn card for me. There are a lot of middle cards that I'll just give up to a turn lead cuz they'll hit so much of his range if we're not already crushed by a higher pair. I guess the best card that I'm most willing to call a bet on turn would be a blanksuit K and a few others. I dunno, I can't articulate this very well. I'd like to hear from bobbo or isura as to their calling standards on a turn lead when we checked flop. [/ QUOTE ] Vs an unknown if the flop is checkeed through and then the turn is checked, we're betting every turn. EVERY one. 2/3 to full pot, depends what hits the deck. If he leads (depends on his size) and it's a paint card I prefer raising. If it's a scare card (puts 4straight or 3flush) we're calling. If it pairs the board, I likely will call, but this is a function of his bet size. That leaves our 1 out (2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]) raise, obviously. And 3 (call). The plan is if we called on the 4straight or 3flush board and they bet a river we're typically folding, if they check we either take the showdown or bluff. On a paint if they call the raise we're done we're checking behind, sometimes we win vs draw there. If we get counterfeited we're not bluffing they win the pot. (Paired board) Obv jam if we did improve. [ QUOTE ] Give me KJo or A2o or even J3s and I would be that much more inclined to 'play poker'. Then I would have more options on how to approach the hand. With 22 I feel I will be guessing more then dictating. [/ QUOTE ] Obv those hands are in slightly better position but the fact is you have 22 and not those hands above. 
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#62
08-19-2007, 03:21 AM
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Re: Spots we rarely think about
Meh... obv evg and bobbo owned this thread, but I don't really think this is that complicated.
That flop hit his range really hard. Many of his hands are awkward to play if we check back here. I'm checking back a lot of hands in this spot because of that.
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