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  #1  
Old 11-13-2007, 09:21 PM
private joker private joker is offline
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Default What I done got myself into?

No read on villain, first orbit at the table.

PokerStars $5/$10 Limit Hold'em - 6 players
Hand Converter Tool from DeucesCracked.com

Preflop: Hero is SB with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
UTG folds, MP folds, CO folds, Button folds, <font color="#FF0000">Hero raises</font>, BB calls.

Flop: (4.00 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#FF0000">Hero bets</font>, BB calls.

Turn: (3.00 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#FF0000">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#FF0000">BB raises</font>, Hero calls.

River: (7.00 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#FF0000">BB bets</font>, <font color="#FF0000">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#FF0000">BB 3-bets</font>, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 13.00 BB
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  #2  
Old 11-13-2007, 09:23 PM
Absolution Absolution is offline
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Default Re: What I done got myself into?

I would fold as played, but I wouldn't raise the river.
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  #3  
Old 11-13-2007, 09:26 PM
Apanage Apanage is offline
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Default Re: What I done got myself into?

Another possible approach to this hand is to call down after BB raises turn.
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  #4  
Old 11-13-2007, 09:28 PM
private joker private joker is offline
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Default Re: What I done got myself into?

Both the responses so far seem really weak. In a blind vs. blind situation, are we really supposed to read a turn raise as meaning he holds the one card in the deck that beats us?

We should be concentrating on getting value out of the second nuts here vs. villain's range, which includes every other heart + some non-heart hands.
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  #5  
Old 11-13-2007, 09:29 PM
Bruce D Bruce D is offline
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Default Re: What I done got myself into?

I usually empty my stack about the same number of bets.

I am raising this turn 100% of the time given your description. I have seen players wait for the turn to raise TP because 'it gets more money in the pot when they are ahead' not thinking about the consequences of particular cards falling.

As played on the turn, there is no reason to raise the river. You have no read that he will overplay his cards with a four flush and a 3 card straight completing on the river (albeit 87s is a small range of your raising standards I imagine).
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  #6  
Old 11-13-2007, 09:52 PM
Apanage Apanage is offline
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Default Re: What I done got myself into?

[ QUOTE ]
Both the responses so far seem really weak. In a blind vs. blind situation, are we really supposed to read a turn raise as meaning he holds the one card in the deck that beats us?

We should be concentrating on getting value out of the second nuts here vs. villain's range, which includes every other heart + some non-heart hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe so.But:

1.You donīt know how he is playing.
2.He is just calling flop
3.Your turn bet on a 4-flush board in a 3BB pot should really scare him if he hasnīt got a high heart.If he has a heart and it is not the ace then he is in a kind of WA/WB situation where he will be concerned that you might have one of the at least two better hearts possible.And at the same time he should be concerned of folding out worse hands in a small pot.I see no meaning for him to raise

If you are comfortable with 3 more bets going into the pot then go ahead and checkraise river.Personally I would rather donk river if I thought he could be spewy.

But I donīt understand what kind of answer you want from us.
You obviously have to call his 3-bet on river.
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  #7  
Old 11-13-2007, 09:54 PM
yourface yourface is offline
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Default Re: What I done got myself into?

[ QUOTE ]
No read on villain, first orbit at the table.

PokerStars $5/$10 Limit Hold'em - 6 players
Hand Converter Tool from DeucesCracked.com

Preflop: Hero is SB with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
UTG folds, MP folds, CO folds, Button folds, <font color="#FF0000">Hero raises</font>, BB calls.

Flop: (4.00 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#FF0000">Hero bets</font>, BB calls.

Turn: (3.00 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#FF0000">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#FF0000">BB raises</font>, Hero calls.

River: (7.00 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#FF0000">BB bets</font>, <font color="#FF0000">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#FF0000">BB 3-bets</font>, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 13.00 BB

[/ QUOTE ]

vnh imo
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  #8  
Old 11-13-2007, 10:10 PM
istewart istewart is offline
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Default Re: What I done got myself into?

I have been looking over this hand for like five minutes. I've come to the conclusion that it is well-played, despite being so ugly looking (lol).

If you're paying off a 3-bet, which vs. an unknown in a 12 BB pot, you probably need to do, you need to be 66% to win when he calls the river. I think this is probably the case, since your line will elicit a lot of suspicious calls with nonflush hands, and of course he pays off any flush.

The other options here are checkcall down, 3-bet turn, and call/bet river. I think checkcall down is in second place, but it's close. I don't really like the others.

FWIW, at the table I would probably default to calling down, but your play looks good.
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  #9  
Old 11-13-2007, 10:28 PM
BryanC BryanC is offline
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Default Re: What I done got myself into?

I think river is good theres no reason to put him on the ace, only question really is if we should bet/call or go for the check/raise, I mostly check raise this too but would be interested to hear what people think of bet/call?

Dont think we can even consider folding here in a BVB against an unknown opponent
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  #10  
Old 11-13-2007, 10:42 PM
MacGuyV MacGuyV is offline
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: old school
Posts: 10,100
Default Re: What I done got myself into?

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Both the responses so far seem really weak. In a blind vs. blind situation, are we really supposed to read a turn raise as meaning he holds the one card in the deck that beats us?

We should be concentrating on getting value out of the second nuts here vs. villain's range, which includes every other heart + some non-heart hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe so.But:

1.You donīt know how he is playing.
2.He is just calling flop
3.Your turn bet on a 4-flush board in a 3BB pot should really scare him if he hasnīt got a high heart.If he has a heart and it is not the ace then he is in a kind of WA/WB situation where he will be concerned that you might have one of the at least two better hearts possible.And at the same time he should be concerned of folding out worse hands in a small pot.I see no meaning for him to raise

If you are comfortable with 3 more bets going into the pot then go ahead and checkraise river.Personally I would rather donk river if I thought he could be spewy.

But I donīt understand what kind of answer you want from us.
You obviously have to call his 3-bet on river.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't see how him calling the flop makes it more likely he has it.
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