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#31
10-31-2007, 12:08 AM
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Re: Your action?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] [ QUOTE ] Bump for results. [/ QUOTE ] The turn was checked through, river was a 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] The BB bet and showed Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] for the straight. [/ QUOTE ] JT, Do you feel that your Turn check was correct? Why or why not? Was there any bias to your River calls are were you simply calling any bet. In practice I would likely call like you, but when I analyzed the River decisions from the standpoint of a Turn check, very few cards that we did not improve on were safe, or even necessary to call on from a bluff stopping standpoint. My analysis was based on a hand range geared more towards low-mid pairs, Mid to Low suited connectors, and several A, K, Q, J-little combinations which I assumed based on his Pre-flop and Flop play. [/ QUOTE ] Hey Nfinity, I saw your discussion with Microbob, and I just wanted to add that like Microbob, I too think that this is one of those situations where if you check the turn you have to call all rivers. My reasoning behind this aproach is that the tag will call this flop with any flush draw, and if we check the turn, most tags are bluffing the river with their nonshowdown hands close to 100% of the time becuz they know that your turn check in this exact spot can easily be a "give up" check as opposed to a "showdown" check. So given the nature of the board, there are many lesser hands the tag can have to get to the river with since all he needs is a heart in his hand to call the flop. And given the dynamic I mentioned above most tags are going to be bluffing close to 100% of the time with their nonshowdown hands. I think thats why in this particular case, when we check the turn with this specific hand, we have to call all rivers unless we have a read that says not to. 
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#32
10-31-2007, 03:44 PM
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Re: Your action?
[ QUOTE ]
Do you feel that your Turn check was correct? Why or why not? [/ QUOTE ] I did. The notes on the player said that the player in question likes to semi-bluff raise the turn HU. I fairly sure he would have bluffed most rivers too. [ QUOTE ] Was there any bias to your River calls are were you simply calling any bet. In practice I would likely call like you, but when I analyzed the River decisions from the standpoint of a Turn check, very few cards that we did not improve on were safe, or even necessary to call on from a bluff stopping standpoint. My analysis was based on a hand range geared more towards low-mid pairs, Mid to Low suited connectors, and several A, K, Q, J-little combinations which I assumed based on his Pre-flop and Flop play. [/ QUOTE ] I was but I agree with your analysis.
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#33
10-31-2007, 05:45 PM
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Re: Your action?
This is Nina. I agree with everything oink has said in this thread about the turn being a bet vs a tag, but a check vs a loose moron. However
[ QUOTE ] I did. The notes on the player said that the player in question likes to semi-bluff raise the turn HU. I fairly sure he would have bluffed most rivers too. [/ QUOTE ] This makes it an easy check IMO.
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#34
10-31-2007, 06:40 PM
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Re: Your action?
[ QUOTE ]
This makes it an easy check IMO. [/ QUOTE ] ??? Bet to induce stupid semibluff from hand with inferior/dominated draw then? If he semibluff raises with a naked heart its gonna be a huge win for Hero
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#35
10-31-2007, 06:53 PM
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Re: Your action?
his flop calling range = huge.
on the turn your equity vs. this range is very, very good. since he is not always folding the hands which should be folded and in fact he is RAISING some hands that should be folded, you have a super easy bet. i think you have an easy bet vs. anyone who plays close to normally anyway. you are going to be ahead so often on the turn that it is hard to beat betting. oink mentioned earlier that it matters what he does with his range on the turn and river, and this is true, but as your equity approaches 100%, betting becomes harder to beat. so now when you have a guy who is actually going to willingly put in more bets with some of his worse hands, betting becomes even better. i thought it was not close to begin with - with the added read it becomes an even clearer bet.
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#36
10-31-2007, 07:02 PM
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Re: Your action?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] This makes it an easy check IMO. [/ QUOTE ] ??? Bet to induce stupid semibluff from hand with inferior/dominated draw then? If he semibluff raises with a naked heart its gonna be a huge win for Hero [/ QUOTE ] Whenever I see statements like this I always assume the poster is running super hot.
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#37
10-31-2007, 07:37 PM
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Re: Your action?
just given the texture of the board it seems much less likely that villain will peel the flop but not peel the turn if we bet again. Because of this betting the turn becomes much more appealing due to villain likely calling the turn drawing very slim a good portion of the time. So basically it strikes me that % of this guys range that doesn't call a turn bet but bluffs the river is small and thus collecting bets from the portion of his range that is the more profitable choice here (also keep in mind that we likely have about 50% equity against the portion of his range that we are behind).
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#38
10-31-2007, 08:05 PM
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Re: Your action?
[ QUOTE ]
This is Nina. I agree with everything oink has said in this thread about the turn being a bet vs a tag, but a check vs a loose moron. However [ QUOTE ] I did. The notes on the player said that the player in question likes to semi-bluff raise the turn HU. I fairly sure he would have bluffed most rivers too. [/ QUOTE ] This makes it an easy check IMO. [/ QUOTE ] reread the thread. oink clarified that he didn't mean checking was the correct play against loosey. I'm pretty sure this is a profitable bet against any realistic player profile. Looks like the unanimous responses in this thread by all of the solid regulars, from various limits both live and online, support this claim.
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#39
10-31-2007, 08:10 PM
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Re: Your action?
Ya
Bet vs LAG, LAGTAG, TAG or loose passive who wont bet river. Check if and only if villain is "peel any flop but fold a lot of turns, bet when villain shows weakness" moron.
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#40
10-31-2007, 10:35 PM
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Re: Your action?
[ QUOTE ]
Ya Bet vs LAG, LAGTAG, TAG or loose passive who wont bet river. Check if and only if villain is "peel any flop but fold a lot of turns, bet when villain shows weakness" moron. [/ QUOTE ] This I agree with. I didnt think about it enough and betting to induce bad semi bluffs is likely better. I still feel pretty gross calling down UI though.
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