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  #21  
Old 11-13-2007, 04:14 PM
istewart istewart is offline
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Default Re: JJ vs. chezlaw

Unless chezlaw raised the flop with 88 with the intention of running a three street bluff*, I doubt putting money in on the river will be profitable from private joker's POV.

*However, by the responses in this thread, this may not be a bad idea. I would say private's preflop range is AK, TT+, but when he calls the flop raise and checkcalls the turn, his hand is basically face-up. So then it just becomes a leveling game. Private likes to fold though, so chezlaw will probably err on the side of bluffing. Which means you should show down, and refutes my original point. gg

Edit #3: This assumes a lot of foresight on chezlaw's part, beginning at the flop. Dunno really, just thinking outloud.
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  #22  
Old 11-13-2007, 04:15 PM
Oink Oink is offline
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Default Re: JJ vs. chezlaw

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The BB still in the hand makes this one interesting, as I think he's raising the flop lighter than he would in a HU pot in position. After BB folds the flop, I can't do anything but get to SD here, as big pot, he has TT-88 enough.

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As usual I misread the action.

The fact that Chez is protection raising here makes it a call down IMO.

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IF the flop was HU, you would say call down because he's raising with xx to make you fold TT-QQ

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As said. My read on chez is based on too few hands. Assuming I had faith in that read I would call down HU. Yes!
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  #23  
Old 11-13-2007, 04:24 PM
private joker private joker is offline
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Default Re: JJ vs. chezlaw

[ QUOTE ]
Unless chezlaw raised the flop with 88 with the intention of running a three street bluff*, I doubt putting money in on the river will be profitable from private joker's POV.

*However, by the responses in this thread, this may not be a bad idea. I would say private's preflop range is AK, TT+, but when he calls the flop raise and checkcalls the turn, his hand is basically face-up. So then it just becomes a leveling game. Private likes to fold though, so chezlaw will probably err on the side of bluffing. Which means you should show down, and refutes my original point. gg

Edit #3: This assumes a lot of foresight on chezlaw's part, beginning at the flop. Dunno really, just thinking outloud.

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Yeah, I'm not sure how much chezlaw is banking on my specific image of being even more of a nitTAG than he is. I know he knows I'm PJ because Heisenberg told him in the chat box a couple weeks ago, but I don't know if he knows my playing tendencies unless he read my stats thread. It kind of seems like my PF action + the BB keeping him honest on the flop leans it more towards the fact that chez has me beat here 99.5% of the time. (I don't mean his flop raise wants to scare out BB, I mean if he's raising 88 or something on this flop then he has to be sure BB doesn't have a K either; I think he thinks he has it locked up which means AA/AK a lot).
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  #24  
Old 11-13-2007, 07:52 PM
sethypooh21 sethypooh21 is offline
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Default Re: JJ vs. chezlaw

If he's got 88, he wants BB to fold JT, he has 1 pair here, we're just not sure if it's K's or 8's or something in between. I suppose AA is also possible...
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  #25  
Old 11-13-2007, 10:44 PM
Cobretti Cobretti is offline
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Default Re: JJ vs. chezlaw

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I think this is a pretty clear call the flop raise and c/f the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]Someone explain this strategy to me as it seems to be the worst of everything as he gets an extra bet on the flop from you and they you are going to fold out your hand almost every time because you are almost certainly facing another bet and you are almost never spiking the J.
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  #26  
Old 11-13-2007, 10:55 PM
milesdyson milesdyson is offline
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Default Re: JJ vs. chezlaw

you're probably right cobretty because it's a 22.5:1 shot and you're not getting more than 3 bets on the turn/river from AA/AK, which gets you to 21:1 total, but there's still the chance he has KK or you turn the J and river the A vs AA. Plus, I have to say there is rake.
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  #27  
Old 11-13-2007, 10:56 PM
MacGuyV MacGuyV is offline
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Default Re: JJ vs. chezlaw

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[ QUOTE ]
I think this is a pretty clear call the flop raise and c/f the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]Someone explain this strategy to me as it seems to be the worst of everything as he gets an extra bet on the flop from you and they you are going to fold out your hand almost every time because you are almost certainly facing another bet and you are almost never spiking the J.

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Yeah if you're calling the flop a turn call is a must imo. He'll play underpairs like this but I don't think he'll fire again on the end.
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  #28  
Old 11-15-2007, 12:40 AM
sharpie sharpie is offline
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Default Re: JJ vs. chezlaw

Chez has gotten out of line vs me in the past (and vice versa) but I could find a fold on the turn. He's not messing around here unless he's on tilt, and he's controlled that well lately, better than me.
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  #29  
Old 11-15-2007, 12:43 AM
sharpie sharpie is offline
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Default Re: JJ vs. chezlaw

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I think this is a pretty clear call the flop raise and c/f the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]Someone explain this strategy to me as it seems to be the worst of everything as he gets an extra bet on the flop from you and they you are going to fold out your hand almost every time because you are almost certainly facing another bet and you are almost never spiking the J.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah if you're calling the flop a turn call is a must imo. He'll play underpairs like this but I don't think he'll fire again on the end.

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For me this would be one of those "loose" flop peels. Does he really raise TT or less here?
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